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Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

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Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#551

Post by [deleted] »

krippe wrote: post #383
65 wrote: post #342

I'm in my 20s. I live alone in a city where I don't know anyone. Remote work destroyed my mental health. All I wanted was to be able to go into an office and talk to a real life person. I would go weeks at a time not talking to a single person in real life. I don't think people understand the plight of the young office worker until they've experienced the torture of solitary confinement. Day in, day out. All alone. I…

So I'm supposed to deal with the hassle of commuting, losing hours of my day, because YOU are starved for human connections? Get out of here...

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#552

Post by alentred »

Answering the direct question in a simplistic way: because this is the preferred style of collaboration for these employers you are talking about. Let me elaborate.

It is not good or bad, effective or ineffective, nor it is the case for all employers.

Here is my take: the preferred style of work (office, remote, hybrid, flexible) needs to be shared between the team members. Not unlike people's values. If the vast majority of people on the team share it - you are golden. If everyone has their own - you have got yourself a problem. By all means, please, ask it on the interview! (Goes both ways, for the employees and for the employers.)

Now, I understand that right now there are probably more pro-office employers than people willing to accept it. Whether it is true or not (do we have some reliable statistics on this? are we a vocal minority instead?), I think only time will create an equilibrium (new generation of middle managers, etc.)

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#553

Post by SpeedilyDamage »

giantg2 wrote: post #473
SpeedilyDamage wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technical folks simply cannot do their jobs without solid working relationships, and those are not as well formed digitally. Remote work will continue to reduce over the next couple of years. If you don’t have a real reason for being at home during the work day, expect to be back in the office soon.

"Technical folks simply cannot do their jobs without solid working relationships, and those are not as well formed digitally." Any real data on this? All the data our company has shows increased performance during WFH, such as an increase in deliveries and decrease in cycle time. So even if it's not as well formed, it seems it's formed sufficiently.

I think you focusing on delivery and cycle time is kind of emblematic of my point; none of that matters if you ship the wrong thing, and don’t correct over time, but to you that’s where the conversation ends.

That’s not where it actually ends, however. How do you know what to work on? How do you know if you built a profitable thing? Being remote lets you ignore those things in ways that are harder to do in person.

Hybrid is probably here to stay, but “remote first” was a pandemic only thing.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#554

Post by Volundr »

roncesvalles wrote: post #460
kelnos wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've made plenty of real, meaningful, long-term friendships at work. But I also have solid friend groups of people I've met outside work. I value all of them, but I'm not going to give up the opportunity to have more flexible working arrangements because some people seem to think they can only make friends at work. > We go to school and make friends with other people at school. Why is it wild that you'd want to go to…

This is exactly the attitude that I'm protesting against. I don't agree that you can make even close to the same depth of friendship with someone who you see 2 hours a week, vs someone you see 8 hours a day 5 days a week for months. Work or school are really the only places where you can spend that much time with someone. Then again, part of the problem is that people have forgotten what real friendships are like. "F…

> I don't agree that you can make even close to the same depth of friendship with someone who you see 2 hours a week, vs someone you see 8 hours a day 5 days a week for months.

With the exception of fast food, I have never, ever spent this kind of time with a co-worker. I don't deny jobs like this exist, but it would certainly be the exception for all the tech jobs I've worked.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#556

Post by SpeedilyDamage »

MrScruff wrote: post #533
SpeedilyDamage wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but what ??? “The only useful conversations are thoughtful, planned, and collaborative”??? That’s so wildly untrue and obviously so, I’m blown away that you could declare something so obviously false so confidently. Where do you work? I’d love to short that company’s stock.

I feel like with a lot of the hardcore anti return to the office people the arguments are disingenuous. People have built their lives (and in some cases moved entirely) based on being able to work remotely 99% of the time, and they refuse to accept there are any disadvantages. I saw Sam Altman say the other day that he didn’t think any of the important companies in the next period of time will be fully remote, and I…

I’ve found that folks who are attached to parts of the business that are focused on growing the business want to be in person more than parts of the business that “punch in/punch out” and don’t take full ownership of their role in the bigger picture.

I’m betting you can imagine who is helpful and who is less so, and further I bet it’s pretty obvious in most cases, which makes the folks who are on the bad end of it defensive.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#557

Post by crocowhile »

65 wrote: post #342

I'm in my 20s. I live alone in a city where I don't know anyone. Remote work destroyed my mental health. All I wanted was to be able to go into an office and talk to a real life person. I would go weeks at a time not talking to a single person in real life. I don't think people understand the plight of the young office worker until they've experienced the torture of solitary confinement. Day in, day out. All alone. I…

> but no time - I was working all day

This is your problem. The rest is a red-herring.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#558

Post by krabizzwainch »

krippe wrote: post #383
65 wrote: post #342

I'm in my 20s. I live alone in a city where I don't know anyone. Remote work destroyed my mental health. All I wanted was to be able to go into an office and talk to a real life person. I would go weeks at a time not talking to a single person in real life. I don't think people understand the plight of the young office worker until they've experienced the torture of solitary confinement. Day in, day out. All alone. I…

So I'm supposed to deal with the hassle of commuting, losing hours of my day, because YOU are starved for human connections? Get out of here...

If you care that little about the social interaction at work, then you probably aren't someone that we are talking about or miss working with...

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#559

Post by jonstewart »

I’m a middle manager in my 40s. I’ve been going into the office since the fall, but was fully WFH during covid before that and made the decision to go back in purely due to personal convenience. My company continues to offer employees flexibility and has not mandated RTO.

That said, we have a lot of team members in the firm in their early 20s, their first jobs. I’ve noticed a preference for those team members to RTO (at least a few days a week), and that a good deal of learning and camaraderie result. It is certainly far easier for me to mentor such folks in the office (especially since most aren’t on my team) than when we’re siloed at home.

More senior folks prefer remote — it’s generally easier to balance family demands. But ones who’ve joined the team having been fully remote from the start have even expressed difficulty coming up to speed, despite everyone on the team being transparent and working to solve the issue. It takes new habits and they’re hard to learn.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#560

Post by SpeedilyDamage »

Adraghast wrote: post #490
SpeedilyDamage wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technical folks simply cannot do their jobs without solid working relationships, and those are not as well formed digitally. Remote work will continue to reduce over the next couple of years. If you don’t have a real reason for being at home during the work day, expect to be back in the office soon.

Thanks for the tip, but I was doing good work remotely ten years before covid and will continue to do so ten years after.

I mean sure, but there’s no real way of knowing what you’ve left on the table by working remotely.

And I say this as someone who was also working remotely before the pandemic. I’m always wary of people who refuse to acknowledge the downsides of ideas they support…

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