Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Should HN ban ChatGPT/generated responses?

news.ycombinator.com

551–560 of 677 posts

Re: Ask HN: Should HN ban ChatGPT/generated responses?

#551
post #24

The fact that soon the internet will be so flooded with bots that you'll be floating eternally alone in a sea of imposters unless we create some draconian real person ID system is a tragedy so great it's crazy it has not dawned on people yet. I started out loving the net because of the feelings of connection and partly because of the honesty and discussions stemming from at least pseudo anonymity, both silly stuff an…

This is going to happen, unless OpenAI and other AI developers, create a hidden unique Cryptic signature inside AI responses. I've read somewhere that openAI is already working on this. If that doesn't work, I think effective discussions on the internet might plausibly shift gradually to other languages, since AI is currently only focused on English, and I doubt thats going to change any time soon. first towards Euro…

What about malicious entities that will simply not do this and publish ChatGPT without any such safety measures? It's happening with Stable Diffusion. The tech-cat is absolutely out of the box now.

Re: Ask HN: Should HN ban ChatGPT/generated responses?

#552
post #24

The fact that soon the internet will be so flooded with bots that you'll be floating eternally alone in a sea of imposters unless we create some draconian real person ID system is a tragedy so great it's crazy it has not dawned on people yet. I started out loving the net because of the feelings of connection and partly because of the honesty and discussions stemming from at least pseudo anonymity, both silly stuff an…

>Christ this is going to be so incredibly boring, paranoid and lonely for everyone in a few years time! I think the opposite will be true. I hope we will spend more people talking to each other in real life, which actually makes me happy that dead internet is happening. I dont know if you buy this theory of social media causing loneliness. I intuitively feel that way and the more I talk with friends on chat, or comme…

I wanted to echo foepys's comment: it is true that there are real negatives to social media but there are a lot of people whose worlds expanded. Starting in the late 1970s and really exploding in the 90s, anyone who didn't fit in with their community or have an easy way to travel to the right spaces[1] could go online and find a community of people who shared their interests. If you live in a large city there's a plausible — I believe still losing but valid — argument that you can find alternatives without _too_ much trouble, but there are many millions of people for whom that isn't true for various reasons.

My personal experience here is far tamer than many — as a straight white boy, for example, I didn't need to worry about getting beaten like the gay kids or followed around by the guards like the Mexican kids did when they went to the mall or library[2] — but I grew up in a conservative religious tradition and getting online where I had access to forums like the talk.origins Usenet group was key to realizing that the religion I was raised in was full of people I trusted who were telling me lies[3]. There was very little in the way of a technical community in the parts of California I grew up in but thanks to FidoNet and the early web, I was able to learn how to program well enough to get a hight score on the CS AP test despite going to school in two districts which didn't even offer the class, which mean that I was able to jump on board the web train as that started taking over the world.

1. Disabled, parent of a small child, kid in a suburb where you probably don't have anything within walking distance even there is a safe way to walk without getting run over, someone who lives in a rural or poor community without well-funded libraries or vibrant public spaces, etc.

2. One high school I went to was about 50% migrant farm workers. Seeing the difference in how those kids were treated was eye-opening – both the willingness to police them in ways which even the skater punks didn't get but also the tyranny of low expectations where it was just kind of assumed that they were going to be ground down by the system and should set their sights low.

3. Biology classes in school wasn't enough — the creationists are good at coming up with arguments to discount curriculum – but what really opened my eyes was seeing the full original source materials which were selectively quoted in the religious writing. It's possible to be innocently ignorant but there's really no good faith explanation for slicing-and-dicing a quote carefully to make it sound like some famous scientist meant the opposite of what they actually wrote.

Re: Ask HN: Should HN ban ChatGPT/generated responses?

#553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many people who have genuine concerns about Israeli issues, such as the election of leaders who prioritise those of one faith over another, the targeted striking of Al Jazeera offices in Palestine, and the eviction of Palestinian citizens from the West Bank https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-63660566 . It would be false to assume that brutality of one site absolves the other of criticism for the s…

You bolster my point.

Your post read as a propaganda piece for Israel by way of preemptively discrediting everyone that might have anything negative to say about it. If the problem is low-quality content (by way of bots, or I guess special interest groups) then you have contributed far less than the response, which at least had the decency to support it's point with actual facts.

Re: Ask HN: Should HN ban ChatGPT/generated responses?

#554
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's doesn't even have to be $5/month. Make a $10 deposit required for creating an account, and for each offense against the guidelines, you get a "fine" that proportional for the severity of the infraction (uncivil discussion? $0.10 cents, participating in hell-threads? $0.50. Comparing HN with reddit? $1.337 Obvious spam? Your whole $10 is gone.) Repeat offenses get exponentially more expensive, and you only get to…

On the surface I like this idea, but this makes it harder for participants from poorer countries from, well, participating. For some countries this is more than a week of the average wage!

If someone is living on $40/month, I'm pretty sure they will have other things to sort out before worrying about their inability to participate in discussions online.

Re: Ask HN: Should HN ban ChatGPT/generated responses?

#555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure it might produce convincing examples of human speech, but it fundamentally lacks an internal point of view that it can express, which places limits on how well it can argue something. It is of course possible that it might (eventually) be convincing enough that no human can tell, which would be problematic because it would suggest human speech is indistinguishable from a knee jerk response that doesn't require t…

You are arguing that a piece of software misses a metaphorical soul (something that cannot be measured but that humans uniquely have and nothing else does). That's an incredibly poor argument to make in a context where folks want interesting conversation. Religion (or religion-adjacent concepts such as this one) is a conversational nuke: It signals to anyone else that the conversation is over, as a discussion on reli…

I find it ironic that you are expressing a strong opinion that opinions do not make good conversation. Philosophy is the highest form of interesting conversation, and it's right there with religion (possibly politics, too).

Re: Ask HN: Should HN ban ChatGPT/generated responses?

#556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer may well be 'consciousness is the ability to fake having consciousness well enough that another conscious being can't tell the difference' (which is the essence of the Turing test). Because if you're looking for a mechanism of consciousness you'd be hard put to pinpoint it in the 8 billion or so brains at your disposal for that purpose, no matter how many of them you open up. They'll all look like so much…

Sure, and that’s what I’m trying to say. Is being conscience just fooling yourself and others really well or is there some new property that eventually emerges from large enough neural networks and sensory inputs? The philosophical zombie is one the most important existencial questions that we may be at the cusp of ignoring.

Hello, not to be rude or anything, but please consider looking up the words “conscience”, “conscious” and “consciousness” in a dictionary and use the correct one for what you mean.

Re: Ask HN: Should HN ban ChatGPT/generated responses?

#557
post #55

They're already banned—HN has never allowed bots or generated comments. If we have to, we'll add that explicitly to https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html , but I'd say it already follows from the rules that are in there. We don't want canned responses from humans either! Edit: It's a bit hard to point to past explanations since the word "bots" appears in many contexts, but I did find these: https://news.yc…

I agree. ChatGPT has made me realise the gulf between “short form essay” school writing and the professionals. Here’s an example article that begins with the cliched GPT-generated intro, and then switches up into crafted prose: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2022/12/chatg...

> ChatGPT wrote more, but I spared you the rest because it was so boring.

Ahem.

Anyways, Searle's take has been out for a while: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_room

Also, people used to look up random I-Ching or Bible verses for guidance. It's probably in the brain of the beholder.

Re: Ask HN: Should HN ban ChatGPT/generated responses?

#558
post #393

The problem with AI is that people setting the vision don’t bake in ethics that are expected of humans. Perhaps because humans are so deeply not used to considering tools as capable of ethics? Or they just don’t care? Or it’s not in their interests? Or it’s too hard so they just push it out of scope? Whatever it is, we don’t do what AI visionaries do when raising our children. What do I mean? Two examples: - The Turi…

> unlike any student writing essays, is not told/taught/built to quote or make visible it’s sources, to provide footnotes or references

Outside of very specific types of essays this is not something routinely taught to students where I live (or anywhere around where I live). In an informal chat setting this isn't taught anywhere that I've ever heard of, which is a significantly larger region.

Re: Ask HN: Should HN ban ChatGPT/generated responses?

#559
post #55

They're already banned—HN has never allowed bots or generated comments. If we have to, we'll add that explicitly to https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html , but I'd say it already follows from the rules that are in there. We don't want canned responses from humans either! Edit: It's a bit hard to point to past explanations since the word "bots" appears in many contexts, but I did find these: https://news.yc…

Simple comments can be good and fruitful. Simple comments can be created by a bot. Simple ≠ Lazy.

(Not a bot)

Re: Ask HN: Should HN ban ChatGPT/generated responses?

#560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, and that’s what I’m trying to say. Is being conscience just fooling yourself and others really well or is there some new property that eventually emerges from large enough neural networks and sensory inputs? The philosophical zombie is one the most important existencial questions that we may be at the cusp of ignoring.

The philosophical zombie is fundamentally uninteresting as a conversational piece, as they are by definition indistinguishable from a "regular" person. For all we know, you could be one. You can speak of this concept until the end of time, just as you can with all things that cannot be measured or proven. It is a matter of faith.

Not really.

If you agree with Descartes that you can be sure of your own conscious, which is one leap of faith, and that it's more likely that the other entities you interact with are a result of evolution just as you, instead of a figment of your imagination (or someone else's), which is yet another leap, you're good to go. And that is the way most of us interpret the human experience.

Inquiring about the consciousness of an artificial entity requires a third leap, since it doesn't share our biological evolution. And it's probably a larger one, as we don't fully understand how we evolved it or what it actually is, really, that we're trying to replicate.

Post reply on HN