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Ask HN: Who Is Firing?

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Re: Ask HN: Who Is Firing?

#551

Post by dang »

0x8BADF00D wrote: post #433
danharaj wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't see any issue with the usage. You refuse to see any issue with the usage.

You are being quite niggardly in your interpretation of my comment. The guidelines state: "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith." You oughtn't to be a niggard when interpreting comments. Otherwise you might see something that isn't there.

That's an important guideline, but not having flamewars takes precedence, the same way that not burning a house down takes precedence over heating it.

Maybe you didn't mean to start a flamewar but you're definitely feeding it, so please stop.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Ask HN: Who Is Firing?

#552

Post by lysium »

rusticpenn wrote: post #151
WhyNotHugo wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, I didn't think any developed country allowed employers to legally cut an employees salary.

That is standard in Germany. For a period of upto 12 months during emergencies, employees contracts can be reduced to x% (for x % hours), the govt will cover the remaining money (upto 60% of net salary). Its called shotrt-term work or kurzarbeit.

Employee must agree. Most do with their initial contract or because of unions, though.

Re: Ask HN: Who Is Firing?

#553

Post by dehrmann »

blaser-waffle wrote: post #324
raghava wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wouldn't be ethical, but wouldn't be surprised if some companies took advantage of the situation. I know for the fact that few US, Indian firms with offices in India are just using this as an excuse to trim their workforce, enforce paycuts (upto 50%), hold back increments for the year (and even next) and restructure salaries drastically - by moving almost 60% to vaiable pay(which typically never gets paid). Such a…

Our experience with Indian firms during COVID has been rocky. Most of the big firms (Tata, CTS, CapGemini) have big offices or call centers, with VPNs or private connections to western infrastructure -- otherwise you would have random Indian IPs logging into your systems, and that would make my security team lose their minds. But with COVID they can't congregate in those offices, and the logistics of getting addition…

> big offices or call centers, with VPNs or private connections to western infrastructure

I used to work on a product with a web console. One of the things we designed and planned for was a login storm around 9-10 AM on Monday in pick-a-timezone where 200 users log in from the same IP. If you ignore the seasonality, it looks a bit like an attack.

Re: Ask HN: Who Is Firing?

#554

Post by dehrmann »

e40 wrote: post #454
nunez wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The exec isn't wrong. You don't turn down free money if it's available, especially if you can use it to help build the business. There are plenty of businesses in /r/smallbusiness or /r/startups talking about doing exactly this. Now, if they used it to buy a new McLaren or something like that, then, yeah, they're a piece of shit.

If they are audited and can't show impact by COVID19, then there might be fines. Big ones. I just signed the loan app for my 36 yr old software company which has been hit by a drop-off in sales.

A harder environment to raise capital is COVID-19 impact, especially for an otherwise-viable startup.

Re: Ask HN: Who Is Firing?

#555

Post by zingar »

Prodigy Finance laid off or furloughed 30% of staff in Cape Town, London and New York. an investor pulled out of the next round AFTER signing a terms sheet and completing due diligence. The company had been hiring for growth, setting up a new management structure etc even on the same day as the layoffs. Management appears to be above board and genuinely upset over this (and cuts are at all levels, execs took pay cuts), the investors are scum in my eyes.

Re: Ask HN: Who Is Firing?

#556

Post by somishere »

squiggleblaz wrote: post #276
somishere wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

pragmatic in that a party with your 20 closest mates is probably, no definitely worth that $1000 fine? Could be a bit soon to be making grandiose rationalisations on the (abundant) benefits of the Australian gaze. there's a way to go yet.

Pff. Every country has people breaking the law. I never said Australians universally follow laws they expect to be enforced, but for that to be a big deal you would have to demonstrate people universally following laws they don't expect to be enforced in some other place. I tell you, it doesn't happen. Leadership in the early days of the crisis made a huge difference. The early days of the crisis now are passed us, s…

Yes, yes. Tho I guess it totally depends on your definition of leadership. IMO the handling has been pretty average.

I could make a list, but I won't. Instead I'll focus on the positives and note that the one commendable thing that the federal government has done in this crisis is to reach deep into their mothballed hip-pocket and squeeze out a few billion pineapples.

I fully appreciate how hard that must have been, given their fixation on 'the black'. And all with only half a whinge.

Re: Ask HN: Who Is Firing?

#557

Post by Silhouette »

barbegal wrote: post #311
Silhouette wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation very much needed. I have never seen anything in UK employment rights law that says "unless the employer is in trouble". If the business is in danger of going bust because it can't afford to keep people on then it may need to make some of them redundant (and redundancy rights will then apply), but that's totally different to unilaterally changing the contractual terms of employment for the worse.

I believe s.98(1)(b) of the Employment Rights Act 1996 [1] allows dismissal for "some other substantial reason" which could be argued to cover this scenario and there is some case law such as Garside and Laycock Ltd v Booth [2] [1] http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/18/section/98 [2] https://www.bto.co.uk/blog/refusing-to-accept-a-wage-cut-%E2...

Thanks for the interesting source material.

It appears that the case in question has not yet been definitively resolved, though, and the argument made would contradict almost everything many employment lawyers have been advising for a long time about the implications of the ERA in this area. Notably, that includes a lot of advice given during the previous financial crisis just over a decade ago, when similar questions were widespread.

The conventional legal wisdom seems to have been that mandating a pay cut is not allowed, because it's not a permitted deduction from wages and it's likely a breach of contract, and that firing someone just for refusing is not allowed either, because any decisions about who to let go if the business is in financial trouble are a separate matter that should be made objectively. That would mean without reference to the refusal by any given employee to accept worse terms of employment, and without conflating a position that might now be redundant with any employee currently holding that position who might also be able to work elsewhere in the business instead.

Re: Ask HN: Who Is Firing?

#558

Post by JBSay »

camgunz wrote: post #542
mardifoufs wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the much higher numbers of indians (especially in C level executive positions) in tech? Or Arabs? Transgenders? Neurodivergents? Iranians? Muslims? What's the line here? At what point would tech not be racist? I really don't see your point here. There is a lot of evidence pointing to a really diverse, generally progressive industry with, if anything, a higher over representation (compared to the population…

> At what point would tech not be racist? When it's demographically representative.

Does your circle of friends exactly match the general population demographics? No? You're a racist!

See how absurd your expectations are?

Re: Ask HN: Who Is Firing?

#559

Post by jansan »

gadders wrote: post #242
danesparza wrote: post #119

God this brings back memories of fuckedcompany.com Right after September 11th, that site got very popular among engineers like me -- seeing (on a daily basis) which company bloodbath was next. It was kind of fun, until it was our company.

I wonder what Pud is up to now. Didn't he use to post on here?

He is on Twitter: https://twitter.com/pud

Re: Ask HN: Who Is Firing?

#560

Post by ruairidhwm »

I just got laid off from a small startup because of COVID. Incredibly bleak given that they were a great company but nobody saw a situation where pretty much our entire market disappeared overnight with low chances of it returning in the near future.

It isn't much fun but that's the way of these things. Got to stay positive and will be checking the HN "Who's Hiring" threads.

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