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Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

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Re: Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

#541

Post by phendrenad2 »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #427
thot_experiment wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. Artificial scarcity is immoral, we need to move to a system where it's not necessary to restrict people from having access to something that has a real cost approaching zero in order to collect rents. SaaS is a perversion created by a system that cannot separate value from scarcity even though the reality is that software is infinitely replicable.

Yes. It's the 21st century, artificial scarcity no longer makes any sense. Globally networked computers exist and they trivially render any information abundant at negligible costs. People need new business models. Selling bits doesn't work. Attempting to make it work requires the destruction of free computing as we know it.

> Globally networked computers exist and they trivially render any information abundant at negligible costs

So you'll be okay with me photocopying a printed book you published and giving it away for free, because "trivially" is a relative term, and I can certainly "trivially" reproduce your book a million times (compared to 12th century monks copying holy works by hand)?

> Attempting to make it work requires the destruction of free computing as we know it

And I suppose copyrighted printed books (and poems, and song lyrics) destroyed "free press" as we know it?

Re: Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

#542

Post by jevgeni »

CGamesPlay wrote: post #498
solardev wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the OP, but I have to disagree too. Creative Cloud, IntelliJ, Figma, Google Workspace, Postman, Spotify, Vercel, Adguard, Google storage space, Alltrails, 1password.. They're all subscriptions and getting better all the time. Meanwhile it's the old purchased software like Windows and Office that get worse with every version.

1Password is objectively getting worse: 1Password 7 has 4.3 stars on the App Store and 1Password 8 has a measly 2.7 stars. 1Password 7 is no longer receiving updates (it's no longer for sale either). 1Password 8 requires iOS 15, so the updates that you're paying for as part of your subscription model require that you pay for a new phone to get them. https://apps.apple.com/us/app/1password-7-password-manager/i... and…

Counting pitchforks doesn't make the pitchforks objective.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

#543

Post by phendrenad2 »

Kuinox wrote: post #84
crazygringo wrote: post #40

Not really, because I saw too many software companies go out of business because not enough people wound up upgrading to the next major version -- the ownership model of software can be awfully feast-or-famine for developers' income, it's a very tough/risky business model. Generally speaking, I'm happy to pay a subscription because this way I get a steady stream of all the updates, and it's much more likely the compa…

Except as a user, the next version had to be better, or I wouldn't pay for it. Now they can just downgrade my product, and I have to continue paying for it.

And no non-subscription software company has ever gone out of business, and deleted all download links when it did so, preventing you (as soon as you lose the installer) from ever installing it again?

Re: Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

#544

Post by janlaureys »

techdragon wrote: post #418
coldtea wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've mixed subscription based services (Google storage space) and content (Spotify) with subscription based software. For services, it might make sense. Even so, what exactly is "getting better all the time" about Spotify the software? It's been the same for like 5 years now. As for the rest: 1Password declined (turned to Electron shit), Creative Cloud keeps adding bloat while not adressing decades standing issues,…

IntelliJ has arguably one of the best subscription models for tools. It works offline and they have fallback licenses so if they doubled the price and I cancel I’m still legally entitled to a recent version that I’ll probably be happy enough with until I find the motivation to replace it with something else. If Adobe worked like that I’d be like 75% pissed off at their products and pricing.

Sketch also used this model for a long time. You pay for a year of updates, and you can keep the last version you got forever.

Recently they started to add more cloud/collaboration services/a web app and switched to a regular old subscription model, but you can bet your ass i'm staying on the legacy model for as long as I can.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

#545

Post by janlaureys »

phendrenad2 wrote: post #539
phrom wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny you mention Windows and Office. Office is getting worse while moving to a subscription model, while Windows is getting worse by moving towards ads.

That hasn't been my experience. Windows 11 has more features any any version before it, and same goes for Office.

More features is not a great indicator of quality.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

#546

Post by Mikho »

Depends on the product.

If a product provides some value that requires additional resources for using it like cloud and keeping information constantly updated (like email) then subscription is fine.

But many now create a product that just sits on mobile or PC without any real need for additional resources or efforts from the company that released it. Like a meditation app with list of audio files of guided meditations that user constantly use daily just replaying them — this shouldn't be subscription or at least should be a very cheap one. Like $1-2. A meditation app that doesn't produce anything outside installed app that asks for the same money as Netflix for the mere fact that users use it daily is just wrong.

Obviously, a meditation app is just an example. You may easily add Adobe products here. If one just uses an app for personal use on one's own PC without needing to connect to other team members or upload anything in the cloud, there is no need for subscription. One-time payment would work much better. Especially when one doesn't need every new update and could stay on the version one bought without being pushed to pay for features or updates one doesn't need.

Again, if subscription then it should be really small for such cases. Adobe desperate acquisition of Figma is exactly the sign that Adobe executes wrong pricing policy. The company could make even more money than it does should it provide really cheap or free access for personal use and make real money on businesses. There would be fewer open seats for competition to eat Adobe's pie and more users invested and familiar with Adobe products that would want to use them in businesses too — basically free customer acquisition. Figma did this and crushed it making Adobe in desperation pay $20B for the same product it already has — pure defensive move.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

#547

Post by phendrenad2 »

fxtentacle wrote: post #123

As a software developer, I experienced the need for subscription revenue first hand. Regular users want support for their software and there's only so much you can do for a fixed one-time payment. As an example, Windows might update on their computer without their knowledge but that Windows update breaks something so the user is like "I didn't change anything but your app stopped working" and in that situation you're…

> there's only so much you can do for a fixed one-time payment

I think that in the pre-internet times, when companies were unable to use a subscription model, they simply increased prices to account for support costs.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

#548

Post by phendrenad2 »

I think the main reason that the subscription model is gaining popularity is that it can discourage piracy. To prove that you have a valid subscription, you have to log in each time. And it's harder to patch out a login system (especially if parts of the program code are stored server-side and are downloaded each run) than it is to patch out a simple cd key check.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

#549

Post by sitkack »

Mobile app stores are the worst at this, apps which have no business being subscription try to get you to pay monthly, like a sleep analysis app, nickle and dime with DLC and add subscription pricing on top. Never a dime to a company like this.

Continuously add value and allow old versions like JetBrains, totally makes sense.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

#550

Post by mattewong »

2143 wrote: post #524

I don't mind newspapers being a subscription, because every day they have to do a lot of work to come up with a new version. However, I find subscriptions super annoying for things that already exist in its entirety and doesn't cost the service provider anything to give more of. Something I find unacceptable is the subscription situation coming up in the car industry: Some examples include: * BMW heated seat subscrip…

Re car manufacturers using remote "unlock" pricing, I will admit to being horrified when I first heard about it.

Unfortunately for my emotions, there is a strong argument to support this new pricing approach-- which might be BS in specific cases but which, from a macro perspective, may nonetheless have merit-- in that fundamentally, all it is, is a mechanism for further granularity of the age-old thing called price discrimination, which is generally viewed as good for both producers and consumers (not that there cannot be exceptions to either that view, or the circumstances in which that view is valid...)

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