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Ask HN: Why hasn't x86 caught up with Apple M series?

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Re: Ask HN: Why hasn't x86 caught up with Apple M series?

#531

Post by lokar »

alt227 wrote: post #485
commakozzi wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple purposely make it so after 3 new versions of the OS you cannot upgrade the OS on the hardware any further "oh a post about Apple, let me come in and share my hatred for Apple again by outright lying!" As stated already, macOS 26 runs on the M1 and even the 2019 Macbook Pro. So i think i know where you got the "3 new versions" figure, and it's a dark and smelly place.

Apologies I was under the impression that the major OS release was every 2 years, and so I equated 6 years into 3 releases. No need to be quite so rude when you could just factually correct. However My parents 2017 Macbook pro can only upgrade to Ventura, which is a 2022 release. 5 years and that $2.5k baby was obselete. However rude you are about your defense of Apple, 5-6 years until software starts being unable to…

It's a real trade-off.

I don't really know why windows is so very very bad, I just assume it has a lot to do with all the compatibility. If that's the case, then I prefer the Apple approach.

Re: Ask HN: Why hasn't x86 caught up with Apple M series?

#532

Post by reaperducer »

bitwize wrote: post #391
RajT88 wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All that to say: M1 is pretty fast, but the reason the battery life is better has to do with everything other than the CPU cores. That's what AMD and Intel are missing. Apple is vertically integrated and can optimize at the OS and for many applications they ship with the device. Compare that to how many cooks are in the kitchen in Wintel land. Perfect example is trying to get to the bottom of why your windows lapto…

Microsoft is pushing "Modern Standby" over actual sleep, so laptops can download and install updates while closed at night.

Microsoft is pushing "Modern Standby" over actual sleep, so laptops can download and install updates while closed at night.

Apple has this. It's called Power Nap. But for some reason, it doesn't cause the same problems reported by people here on HN.

Re: Ask HN: Why hasn't x86 caught up with Apple M series?

#533

Post by mixmastamyk »

veidr wrote: post #490
kwimajs wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, I haven't done any research on this, but it's something that crosses my mind from time to time. My laptop has 32 GB of RAM and an i7-14700H processor, with Linux Mint installed. I'm more than happy with its performance, especially considering I bought it for a price that was very cheap for the market. I wonder what specs a MacBook would need to give me similar performance. For example, on Linux with 32…

I don't know for sure, either, but I suspect any recent Macbook with 16GB RAM would be a significant upgrade over 14700H. I don't like macOS, so in recent years, I only use it on laptop (which for me is like, a few on-site meetings per year, plus a few airplane flights). What infuriates me is that my mid-tier Mac laptop for those use cases is now significantly faster than any Linux workstation I can possibly buy... a…

There are a few new AMD rigs, for either games or unified memory applications that are competitive or narrowly beat Apple in performance (not efficiency).

Re: Ask HN: Why hasn't x86 caught up with Apple M series?

#534

Post by mixmastamyk »

thisiswhy1 wrote: post #357

A friend at grad school was asking me for advice -- he had an "in" at Intel -- make $250k and do nothing. A friend had promised a basically no-show position for him. My friend was debating between this $250k/yr no-show position at Intel (no growth) vs something elsewhere which was more demanding but would provide more growth. This isnt the only no-show position I've heard about at Intel. That is why Intel cannot catc…

I’ll take it, hard to find any work now… ;-)

Re: Ask HN: Why hasn't x86 caught up with Apple M series?

#535

Post by cyberpunk »

blacksmith_tb wrote: post #35
himeexcelanta wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sure it’s great. As a layman there’s no way I’m running something called “Pop!_OS” versus Mac OS.

Meh, it's kind of a silly name, sure, but it's one of the few distros backed by an actual vendor (System76) who isn't just trying to sucker you into buying something. As a result it has a nice level of polish and function. I like macOS fine, I have been using Macs since 1984 (though things like SIP grate).

Why does SIP grate? For my work machines I really want features like SIP to prevent fuckups and malware (especially considering how much code a random rust or node application pulls in).

For tinkering machines and servers and stuff of course that’s a different story..

Re: Ask HN: Why hasn't x86 caught up with Apple M series?

#536

Post by Rohansi »

JJJollyjim wrote: post #259
BirAdam wrote: post #250

First, Apple did an excellent job optimizing their software stack for their hardware. This is something that few companies have the ability to do as they target a wide array of hardware. This is even more impressive given the scale of Apple's hardware. The same kernel runs on a Watch and a Mac Studio. Second, the x86 platform has a lot of legacy, and each operation on x86 is translated from an x86 instruction into RI…

Apple CPUs do decode instructions into micro-ops. https://dougallj.github.io/applecpu/firestorm.html

Pretty much all CPU architectures these days do.

Re: Ask HN: Why hasn't x86 caught up with Apple M series?

#537

Post by rangestransform »

chmod775 wrote: post #289

> If I open too many tabs in Chrome I can feel the bottom of the laptop getting hot, open a YouTube video and the fans will often spin up. Change TDP, TDC, etc. and fan curves if you don't like the thermal behavior. Your Ryzen has low enough power draw that you could even just cool it passively. It has a lower power draw ceiling than your M1 Pro while exceeding it in raw performance. Also comparing chips based on tra…

The only cost that matters is the cost of the final consumer product, it's AMD or Lenovo's fault that they can't afford to eat the cost of a bigger die for a better consumer experience

Re: Ask HN: Why hasn't x86 caught up with Apple M series?

#538

Post by giantrobot »

ljosifov wrote: post #527
giantrobot wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple bought PA Semi a long time ago. They have a significant silicon development group. Their architecture license (they were an early investor in ARM) for ARM means they get to basically do whatever they want using the ARM ISA. The SoCs in pretty much all their devices are designed in-house.

Were they ARM investors at the time they needed CPU for Newton? Was that before or after e.g. iPaq PDA-s? And latter - was it that it looked that Apple maybe in danger of going under, and then they sold their ARM stake and got a cash injection that way? I remember iPaq PDA fondly. Wrote a demo to select a song from a playlist with few thousand author-album-song with voice query. The WiFi add-on was a big plastic "sle…

IIRC Apple originally invested in ARM during the development of the Newton. The original Newtons used ARM 610 CPUs. I don't know exactly when they sold their ARM stake but they kept their architecture license.

The Newton was long before the iPaq, the MessagePad was released in 1993.

Re: Ask HN: Why hasn't x86 caught up with Apple M series?

#539

Post by filoeleven »

alt227 wrote: post #485
commakozzi wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple purposely make it so after 3 new versions of the OS you cannot upgrade the OS on the hardware any further "oh a post about Apple, let me come in and share my hatred for Apple again by outright lying!" As stated already, macOS 26 runs on the M1 and even the 2019 Macbook Pro. So i think i know where you got the "3 new versions" figure, and it's a dark and smelly place.

Apologies I was under the impression that the major OS release was every 2 years, and so I equated 6 years into 3 releases. No need to be quite so rude when you could just factually correct. However My parents 2017 Macbook pro can only upgrade to Ventura, which is a 2022 release. 5 years and that $2.5k baby was obselete. However rude you are about your defense of Apple, 5-6 years until software starts being unable to…

> My parents 2017 Macbook pro can only upgrade to Ventura, which is a 2022 release. 5 years and that $2.5k baby was obselete.

Meanwhile, in [Windows land], > Microsoft has provided the minimum and feature-specific device specifications required for upgrading to Windows 11. A number of devices will meet these requirements, however devices with legacy BIOS or without a Trusted Platform Module (TPM 2.0) are not compatible for the upgrade.

> Microsoft also provided a full list of supported Intel processors; however this loosely translates to compatibility with Intel's 8th-generation processors and newer, meaning devices produced within the last 6-7 years have a high chance of being compatible.

Sure looks like Apple's support of old machines is in line with Windows here.

[Windows land] https://www.rm.com/blog/2024/may/a-surprising-number-of-pcs-...

Re: Ask HN: Why hasn't x86 caught up with Apple M series?

#540

Post by philistine »

nartho wrote: post #425
shermantanktop wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t Apple have significant market share for pro music and video editing? For studio movies, render farms are usually Linux but I think many workstation tasks are done on Apple machines. Or is that no longer true?

Music production is overwhelmingly Apple. It comes from the fact that Protools was Mac only until the late 2000s and Logic Pro, Apple's DAW and alternative to Protools was also very popular and also Mac only. That left Cubase for windows and a few others like Ableton and less popular DAWs like Reaper, fruity loops etc. Today there are a few more options for Windows like Studio One who is very good though Add to that…

> most of the audio interfaces were firewire

With Apple removing Firewire support this Fall, and so many devices still plugging along in so many studios, I wonder what's going to happen this fall.

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