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Ask HN: Inherited the worst code and tech team I have ever seen. How to fix it?

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Re: Ask HN: Inherited the worst code and tech team I have ever seen. How to fix it?

#531

Post by _9hey »

1. Obviously add all code to version control then try to clone the site in a different environment to see if it fails

2. Start planting seeds with upper management explaining that kicking the can down the road wrt code quality is like skipping oil changes in your car. They may not like change but they’ll have a broken car if they don’t start taking small steps now.

3. Study domain driven design and software architecture, primarily loose coupling and reducing live dependencies. You’re about to become phenomenal at software architecture. Codescene.io may help.

Re: Ask HN: Inherited the worst code and tech team I have ever seen. How to fix it?

#532

Post by marcosdumay »

denimnerd42 wrote: post #484
ido wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And also starting by fixing the js/css/html front end is likely the safest, as it wont corrupt any customer data & it will be visible when something breaks. That can probably be the next best candidate to do a major overhaul. I'd also hope that a $20M/year project can afford to hire someone senior in addition to these 3 juniors?

why would someone senior even want to join this team? Especially someone senior enough to fix this. The productivity is horrible and there's no kudos for fixing something that's lived for 12 years like this.

> why would someone senior even want to join this team?

Well, money. Why would someone even want to join any team?

Re: Ask HN: Inherited the worst code and tech team I have ever seen. How to fix it?

#533

Post by pdimitar »

lolinder wrote: post #513
gloosx wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

to loose all the comments? :D that would make it even harder to read

In a project without version control (or one that doesn't trust it enough) there are always whole sub-programs made up of dead code. It's usually some combination of commented-out blocks and functions that are only called from within those commented-out blocks. Removing commented code (not real, descriptive comments) is the first step to eliminating all this dead code, and eliminating dead code buys a ton more flexib…

Fully agreed, I was tasked with using an old library and my first order of business was to make an analysis of dead code branches. The GIT commit removed 17 out of 80 files and about 10-11% of the code in some other files (that were not deleted) and the library works 100% the same -- confirmed by tests that I painstakingly added during the last weeks.

Less code, less confusion.

Re: Ask HN: Inherited the worst code and tech team I have ever seen. How to fix it?

#534

Post by _9hey »

29athrowaway wrote: post #62

“Before you heal someone, ask him if he's willing to give up the things that make him sick.” ― Hippocrates You have to have a conversation with the people responsible for this shit, including (and specially) stakeholders, make them aware of the problem, and get them on board with respect to the possible solution. This step is essential before even bothering to do fucking anything. Most importantly, make it clear that…

There are some strong arguments here

Re: Ask HN: Inherited the worst code and tech team I have ever seen. How to fix it?

#535

Post by crabbygrabby »

I was in the same boat once upon a time. I actually overhauled it all but spent the next six months trying to convince 80 yr olds who self taught themselves visual basic (version 3? I think)that the code I made was faster, more sustainable, and ready to hire more staff to build into it. That was pretty much a failure, they agreed it was faster, but it just wasn't written by the guys who originally wrote it. Shucks. So here's what I did. I left. Sometimes you lose and can't win even if it's to save a company from itself. Businesses might choose to hire retirees as consultants for decades, well past the point where they can control their bowels in public.

Not saying this is your only option, but I am saying, if the tech work is hopeless, the culture is unreasonable, and it's not gonna change until two-three people go through it and are honest at exit interviews, you have to make an honest assessment of your goals. Last I checked the company decided to hire someone for 2x what I worked for, and that person put "open to new roles" on their LinkedIn a few weeks ago...

Re: Ask HN: Inherited the worst code and tech team I have ever seen. How to fix it?

#536

Post by mgkimsal »

samus wrote: post #216
specialdragon wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd add putting in a static code analysis tool in there because that will give you a number for how bad it is (total number of issues at level 1 will do), and that number can be given to upper management, and then whilst doing all the above you can show that the number is going down.

There is significant danger that management will use these metrics to micromanage your efforts. They will refuse changes that temporarily drive that number up, and force you to drive it down just to satisfy the tool. For example, it is easy to see that low code coverage is a problem. The correct takeaway from that is to identify spots where coverage is weakest, rank them by business impact and actual risk (judged by…

Many tools allow you to set the existing output as a baseline. That's your 0 or 100 or whatever. You can track new changes from that, and only look for changes that bring your number over some threshold. You can't necessarily fix all the existing issues, but you can track whether you introduce new ones.

Re: Ask HN: Inherited the worst code and tech team I have ever seen. How to fix it?

#538

Post by more_corn »

skrebbel wrote: post #251
codingdave wrote: post #13

First off, no, a full rewrite is not only not necessary, but probably the worst possible approach. Do a piece at a time. You will eventually have re-written all the code, but do not ever fall into the trap of a "full re-write". It doesn't work. But before you re-write once line of code - get some testing in place. Or, a lot of testing. If you have end-to-end tests that run through every feature that is currently used…

I fully agree with this, but I think it misses a key step: As the team’s manager, it’s your job to get buy-in from the executives to gradually fix the mess. You don’t need to tell the team exactly how to fix it, but you gotta get buy-in for space to fix it. One approach is just to say “every Friday goes to adding tests!” (And then when there’s some reasonable test coverage, make fridays go to refactoring that are eas…

Not the team’s manager. OP says so in the first line.

Re: Ask HN: Inherited the worst code and tech team I have ever seen. How to fix it?

#539

Post by karmicthreat »

mrits wrote: post #447
karmicthreat wrote: post #420

So I think the first option you should strongly consider is just running. It's a valid tactic and if the management team is difficult, is probably the best one for you. If you stay you need to manage your relationship with the management team. This involves the usual reporting, lunches etc. You need to setup some sort of metrics immediately. Just quarterly might be sufficient. Nobody is going to care about bug fix co…

We also need OP to do some self reflection and decide if this is really spaghetti code or they are just lazy learners. It is easy to look at complicated projects and only see the complexity.

I’m inclined to believe the op if it’s a team of juniors with no version control or tests.

Re: Ask HN: Inherited the worst code and tech team I have ever seen. How to fix it?

#540

Post by mgkimsal »

fny wrote: post #64

> this code generates more than 20 million dollars a year of revenue From a business perspective, nothing is broken. In fact, they laid a golden goose. > team is 3 people, quite junior. One backend, one front, one iOS/android. Resistance to change is huge. My mistake, they didn't lay a golden goose--they built a money printer. The ROI here is insane. > productivity is abysmal which is understandable. The mess is just…

> But you just told me they built a $20M revenue product with 3 bozos. That sounds unbelievably productive.

This doesn't indicate how profitability, and seems to ignore that management/owners might have had something to do with it. A well-connected industry player is better poised to start/found/build/grow a company to that level than someone with 0 experience.

And... yes... quitting to something which matches the OPs expectations will likely be better all around than trying to 'fix' something people aren't asking to be fixed (it seems).

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