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Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

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Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#521
post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people I work with don't know that I don't take stimulants. In fact, it only ever comes up when I decline coffee from someone. I rarely ever mention it, and I hope my post did not come across as sanctimonious. Let me know if and how it did, so I can be more clear in the future. I just wanted to state my preference and reasoning.

It seems utterly nuts to me that someone could sleep at work as a reasonable alternative to drinking coffee. Most jobs and workplaces are just not at all set up to sleep during the working day.

I take naps at work occasionally. I'm fortunate to have an office with a locking door. I can just close it, and lie down on the floor.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll second this. I don't even drink coffee. I've encountered people who seem absolutely incredulous that I take no stimulants at all. "How do you stay awake?" is something I'm asked. My go-to response now is "I don't. If I'm tired, I get more sleep." Some of these people probably think that I'm lying. There are a lot of people who think that sleeping at work is a bad idea, but I think it's a lot better than guzzling…

Do you mind sharing what books on memory you found particularly helpful?

Would be good to know

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#523
post #84

I would be careful of overestimating the amount of stimulant use based on comments and emails here. People who use a lot of stimulants tend to love talking about themselves and often have a belief that anyone successful must be taking stimulants secretly. It plays into the motivation of most stimulant users which is that the stimulants have given them a special cheat code in life. I worked in construction in my young…

When I was much younger I was exposed to a variety of different drug users. Everything you said is 100% spot on with anyone that abused drugs. I've come to learn that there a few different kinds of drug users. The first are the users who have not yet had to face the reality of drugs or how drugs affect them personally, even if they are suffering consequences from use. The mental gymnastics at play serve to protect an…

It's rare but there are also people who successfully manage their drug use minimizing harmful side effects and getting by just fine.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#524
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how can you tell if someone is up? Just from years of using stimulants yourself or are there obvious, telltale signs? I missed a boatload of them with Peter.

Flinches if surprised, picks at skin or scratches more than normal (there might be visible sores from this), intense preoccupation with things ordinarily beneath interest, hard to interrupt from work, drinks lots of water if responsible, particularly unconcerned with thirst if not. Particularly prone to discuss subjects at length, perhaps an unusually quiet or loud vocal tone. There's also of course the side effect l…

> Flinches if surprised, picks at skin or scratches more than normal (there might be visible sores from this), intense preoccupation with things ordinarily beneath interest, hard to interrupt from work, drinks lots of water if responsible, particularly unconcerned with thirst if not.

... is someone giving me stimulants without my knowledge? That's me at baseline.

Or should I cut out even my one cup of coffee per day?

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as somebody diagnosed with adhd at older age and that is taking ritalin (legally) i would say it helps a lot. but im taking less then prescribed because i dont want to be dependent on it. i always wondered it the effect is stronger for somebody without adhd.

> i always wondered it the effect is stronger for somebody without adhd i've wondered this myself. i often hear people say stuff like "people with real adhd can't get high from stims", but i suspect that some of this is just that people want to distance their legitimate use from those tweakers over there. if there's any truth to it, i'd bet it comes down to the way the drug is used. when you take an extended release…

I was prescribed too high of a dose of Adderall for ADHD once, and I had what could be described as a manic episode, with some mild hallucinogenic effects. I was awake for 36 hours straight without any fatigue, and my resting heart-rate was elevated by almost 20bpm.

It was terrifying enough that I don't think I'll ever abuse the stuff, but I can definitely believe that some people would like the feeling.

On the other hand, correctly dosed Focalin significantly reduces my symptoms (as in I go from being unable to complete a simple 5 sentence e-mail to being able to be mostly on-task). Avoiding all simple-carbs before noon significantly improves the efficacy of it as well for me (a traditional sugar/starch american breakfast would make me hypoglycemic around the middle of the day).

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#526
I'm in my 20s and have worked as an engineer at a top tech company for over a year. I've seen a moderate amount of drug use during that time. I wouldn't characterize it as ubiquitous by any means, but it also isn't that uncommon. I've never heard of any of my coworkers doing drugs at work, but many of them do them recreationally outside of work and occasionally at work functions. This all may sound a little judge-y but this is what I know:

Two of the engineers on my team do drugs with some regularity. One likes to consume MDMA and other club drugs socially when going out with friends (I'd guess he does it on roughly a semi-monthly basis). The other is a regular cocaine user. He's somewhat cagey about this, but I suspect he does cocaine at least weekly. They have told me stories about doing cocaine together with other people in the office including college interns.

At my company there are also multiple managers in their early 40s/late 30s who frequently get drunk to the point of blacking out as part of after-hours work functions. These are guys with wives and kids at home, some of whom are very senior.

Best guess as to why they tell me this stuff is because my coworkers seem to assume I smoke a lot of weed (I don't) and therefore feel comfortable telling me what they get up to outside of work. I also typically drink liberally with them at the aforementioned work events so I'm seen as somewhat trustworthy. It's unusual enough that I'm still surprised when I find out my coworkers do some of these things but try not to judge them for it as I tried a few drugs in college. I'd probably do them too if I enjoyed drugs more.

The attitude of my manager and others towards this kind of behavior is best summarized as "the less I know the better". My boss is also pretty young and definitely has some idea of what young engineers at tech companies get up to. I get the feeling he willfully turns a blind eye so he doesn't have to feel responsible for the indiscretions of my teammates.

My take is that there's a little bit of denial about substance abuse within tech. It becomes very easy to see the drug use described above as normal when you're in an environment where lots of your peers are doing it and everyone is extremely well-paid and well-educated and able to rationalize self-destructive behavior in ways that are hard to argue with. It's a symptom of an industry that puts a premium on people with a lot of raw intelligence and high work ethic but not much self awareness.

If you are interested in hearing more feel free to reach out at the email on my HN profile.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#527
post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems utterly nuts to me that someone could sleep at work as a reasonable alternative to drinking coffee. Most jobs and workplaces are just not at all set up to sleep during the working day.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "not at all set up to sleep during the working day", but I assume you mean that it would be difficult to find a comfortable place to sleep. At a place I worked at previously, I asked if they had any quiet rooms that would be good to take a nap in. They gave me a key to the lactation room, which was quiet, dark, and great for taking a nap. As far as I can tell I was the only person…

I have worked at several companies of varying sizes, and have never seen a lactation room. They're certainly not required by law.

I can also say the only place that would have been amenable to workers taking naps was an academic lab that I worked in during a couple years following my time at school. Have you worked in the private sector much?

"I wouldn't even consider a job that wouldn't let me nap" is not a realistic attitude for basically anyone to have outside of a lucky few in tech.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#528

SF Bay Area: Are you worried that it’s a bit tone deaf to be writing a book on drug use among well-paid programmers and other tech sector workers when they are living among a sea of homeless people living in squalor under bridges with high levels of heroin and alcohol abuse and mental illness?

Much like what we have seen with the opioid epidemic I suspect that people will pay more attention to stories about well-educated, affluent (read white) members of the upper middle class suffering from drug abuse. If the end result is more humane drug policy and enforcement then maybe it's a good thing?

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#530
post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add to this - people often equate energy with productivity. I see a lot of comments saying "it was the most productive I've ever been in my life". As someone who's been on both sides, I used to believe stimulants granted exceptional focus and productivity as well. After starting my own business and seeing what real focus and productivity look like, I believe stimulants only help when it comes to slogging through p…

If it's proscribed, then you probably shouldn't be doing it. :)

Back to naturopathy school for you.
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