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Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

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521–530 of 549 posts

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#521

I quit. I had a nearly 20 year career in software, excellent references and well paid. I became completely burned out and hyper-cynical at the pointlessness and shallowness of it all. I can't get excited or even much beyond passing interest in an industry that is almost completely devoted to making the problem of too much stuff far worse. So instead of getting excited at another pointless startup or tech that's "goin…

Hi, what did you do for a career change if it's okay to ask?

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fairly certain spiders are not concerned about the suffering of the butterflies they consume..

Are you seriously comparing animals killing and eating other animals for food with what we do to animals and birds in slaughterhouses? Have you watched videos of slaughterhouses? Have you seen how fur is plucked off rabbits for angora, and feathers off birds for down jackets? In almost all cases, the skin also comes off and they are not even killed after the act but mercilessly left to die on their own. Almost everyo…

Have you watched videos of spiders eating their prey? It's more horrific than what we do in most cases. They paralyze them, wrap them up, let them sit there to contemplate their demise, and then suck the blood out of them while they're incapacitated and conscious. Spiders are but one example of the horrific predator/prey dynamic in nature.

And to be clear, I'm just as horrified by our treatment of animals as you are but I've learned to make my peace with it. I'm just hoping that lab-grown meat becomes a viable alternative some day and we don't have to grow animals for food.

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To be really effective in your non-work time, x would have to be at most 5 or less That doesn't sound very effective to me > Reducing expenses to half is pretty tough given the biggest expense is rent/mortgage. This is simply a matter of finding a location to live where rent is not a big expense. All you need is an internet connection. You don't have to live in the Bay Area to create software and there are plenty o…

>I also find that the best health insurance policy is to take care of yourself >minimize your health risks (thankfully programming is not very hazardous health risks from being seated and sedentary all day are quite extreme. Unless you meant they should join a gym and increase their expenses, thus increasing the amount of work they need to do to pay their bills. So we've got: health insurance, car insurance, gym memb…

> Unless you meant they should join a gym and increase their expenses, thus increasing the amount of work they need to do to pay their bills.

On what planet is a gym membership required to maintain a healthy lifestyle? How's this for an option: instead of owning/maintaining a car and paying for car insurance, ride a bike to work. Now you've killed two birds with one stone.

> internet connection

How about instead of paying for an internet connection you go to a library or hang out at a coffeeshop when you need to use it. Or go in with a neighbor to get it cheaper.

> any current debt (student loans, car loans, mortgage, personal loans, etc)

Sell the car, sell the house, and as far as the student loans go, consolidate them and pay the minimum for as long as you need to.

> So yeah, just cut all those expenses by 10x, have a job that allows you to work less than 20 hours/ week from anywhere, and have a altruistic goal that can also be met remotely without interacting with anyone ever.

Most people's expenses can be cut by about that much if they just give up the luxury of owning and operating a car and move to a region/neighborhood that has much cheaper rent (or take roommates gasp!). I have to image if your very survival depended on a 10x decrease in your expenses you'd be clever enough to make it happen.

> Oh and also, be a programmer - remember that an altruistic life is reserved for very specific niches of society, altruism should never be the goal of the huddled masses.

I don't remember me or anyone else ever saying that in this thread.

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have answers to all your points, but I can't help but think you'd just come up with ways to debunk all of them. All I can say is that I wholeheartedly suggest you take a step back and ask yourself why you see roadblocks everywhere instead of opportunities. Skepticism and even a little cynicism is understandable, and I indulge in it every once and a while too. But it seems to me like you're going out of your way to…

Okay, let's take a step back. I mostly agree with you and I'm not at all offended; there are answers and the way is open. I can go against the flow of money and work for other reasons, especially if I'm a talented, determined programmer. In fact, I have made huge strides towards being able to dedicate myself fully to work I think is important. Made an impact? No, not in any direct way, not yet, but I am trying and mo…

> Can you really say with a straight face that more than a very lucky small minority of the 7.3+ billion people can realistically pursue a lifestyle of altruism?

Honestly, I think the best thing we can do is to continue to try to innovate and automate. Global poverty has been dropping consistently for decades and that rate doesn't appear to be changing. I credit this to globalization, advances in technology, and relative peace throughout the globe because of strategic alliances and military stalemates.

The best thing we can do as engineers is continue to add real value to the world by automating as much as we can. Robots work for free, and despite what people love to parrot, efficiencies are enjoyed by everyone, not just the 1%.

In other words, simply contributing value to society through your work is altruistic. As opposed to those who don't work at all and contribute nothing, for whom I have very little sympathy or patience.

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I also find that the best health insurance policy is to take care of yourself >minimize your health risks (thankfully programming is not very hazardous health risks from being seated and sedentary all day are quite extreme. Unless you meant they should join a gym and increase their expenses, thus increasing the amount of work they need to do to pay their bills. So we've got: health insurance, car insurance, gym memb…

> Unless you meant they should join a gym and increase their expenses, thus increasing the amount of work they need to do to pay their bills. On what planet is a gym membership required to maintain a healthy lifestyle? How's this for an option: instead of owning/maintaining a car and paying for car insurance, ride a bike to work. Now you've killed two birds with one stone. > internet connection How about instead of p…

> ride a bike to work.

LOL, in a rural location that you suggested to lower rent? Work is likely to be at least a 20 minute commute by car, more than 15 miles each way for sure. ( the US average commute time is 25.4 minutes) Also, biking to and from work would reduce the time you are able to spend on your altruism even further.

>How about instead of paying for an internet connection you go to a library or hang out at a coffeeshop when you need to use it. Or go in with a neighbor to get it cheaper.

Because no one is going to hire a remote freelancer without an internet connection? are you even serious? this is laughable.

>sell the house

right cutting your expenses is much easier when youre not paying rent, youre right just be homeless! then you can help all the animals you want!

>as far as the student loans go, consolidate them and pay the minimum for as long as you need to.

right, still left with a student loan payment at the end of that, so this doesnt offer any solutions at all.

> luxury of owning and operating a car and move to a region/neighborhood that has much cheaper rent (or take roommates gasp!)

So where do you have in mind? you must have something really specific in mind because i cant think of a single area with very low cost of living and very high bikeable/walkable streets - please enlighten us as to the perfect place to live.

>I don't remember me or anyone else ever saying that in this thread.

right, but youre giving advice that says "you dont need basic income to be altruistic, you can just work remotely and live somewhere cheap, then work less and use your free time to be altruistic"

Wherein the 'working remotely' applies only to a very niche set of jobs (which all universally require an internet connection and specific set of skills)

Sorry man, your hypothetical solution is plainly not realistic.

In order to help save the lives of animals thats what this person should do?

They should:

Move to a low cost of living area

Work at most half as much as you do now (and have a job that is somehow OK with that)

sell your car

sell your house

consolidate all loans

get a remote freelance job

get rid of your internet connection and only use the library

cut all your costs by 10x

bike to work

oh right, also:

dont have a spouse

dont have children

work in a remote-friendly industry

desire to perform remote-friendly altruistic work

dont save for retirement

dont get sick

dont get injured

but yeah man, this sounds totally doable for anyone who wants to support a cause, this sounds like the type of society anyone would want to live in; way worse than providing people with a basic income enabling the entire country to pursue their altruism

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#527
post #390
post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>> Our career is create on demand on schedule. Spot on. Lately, I've started questioning if agile development isn't the worst thing that has happened to my overall happiness :) Waterfall had severe drawbacks, but in any reasonably sized organizations, you'd have a lot of time on your hands in between projects, QA testing and acceptance testing. I still miss being able to hack on small stuff on work time without anyb…

I wouldn't want to go back to waterfall, but my experiences with "on demand on schedule" (a very astute phrase, that) have caused me to realize it did have advantages. Good software usually doesn't result from massive upfront requirements analysis, design, and scheduling, and the iterate and repeat approach has huge benefits (provided you've done some planning about where you're going). However, waterfall did have on…

>> , in that it forces the business side to be clear about what they want.

+1000, business analysts? I haven't seen a business analyst in 10 years.

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you seriously comparing animals killing and eating other animals for food with what we do to animals and birds in slaughterhouses? Have you watched videos of slaughterhouses? Have you seen how fur is plucked off rabbits for angora, and feathers off birds for down jackets? In almost all cases, the skin also comes off and they are not even killed after the act but mercilessly left to die on their own. Almost everyo…

Have you watched videos of spiders eating their prey? It's more horrific than what we do in most cases. They paralyze them, wrap them up, let them sit there to contemplate their demise, and then suck the blood out of them while they're incapacitated and conscious. Spiders are but one example of the horrific predator/prey dynamic in nature. And to be clear, I'm just as horrified by our treatment of animals as you are…

Just reiterate what you just said and see how it sounds. If everybody looked at atrocities and tries to "make their peace" with them, you can imagine how the world will turn out. I feel at this point you are just trying to defend your previous points, some of which are on very shaky ground.

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, how delightful. Call the government ethics hotline and inform them that your employer is defrauding the government. You might get a nice bonus out of it, in theory. In reality, whistleblowers always get screwed. You would have to extensively cover your own ass, and gather evidence that absolves you, specifically, of wrongdoing first. If you are reporting time worked as anything other than the actual number that y…

I haven't worked there in almost four years, so that would be hard to do at this point. Even if I was, part of what sustained this is that we were a classified program, so only cleared auditors could access the full information. Furthermore, our government customer didn't care as long as they got their deliveries on time and as cheaply as possible. I know in theory a program office can't lean on DCAA, but in practice…

I consider it likely that they're still doing it after four years. Even so, you can still report what happened four years ago.

The DoD inspector general hotline is (800) 424-9098 or http://www.dodig.mil/hotline/hotlinecomplaint.html .

The GAO fraudnet hotline is (800) 424-5454 or https://www.gao.gov/cgi-bin/fraudnet.cgi .

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unless you meant they should join a gym and increase their expenses, thus increasing the amount of work they need to do to pay their bills. On what planet is a gym membership required to maintain a healthy lifestyle? How's this for an option: instead of owning/maintaining a car and paying for car insurance, ride a bike to work. Now you've killed two birds with one stone. > internet connection How about instead of p…

> ride a bike to work. LOL, in a rural location that you suggested to lower rent? Work is likely to be at least a 20 minute commute by car, more than 15 miles each way for sure. ( the US average commute time is 25.4 minutes) Also, biking to and from work would reduce the time you are able to spend on your altruism even further. >How about instead of paying for an internet connection you go to a library or hang out at…

Man, you're right. It's impossible. Oh well.
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