Ask HN: Why is Pave legal? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#511

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Sep 16, 2024, 3:56 AM UTC

Terr_ wrote: post #438

throw10920 wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what's disingenuous Incorrect. I'm pointing out logical fallacies and emotional manipulation. Nothing disingenuous here, just rationality. > attempt to stifle an entirely on-topic discussion Incorrect. This is "flamebait....generic tangents...internet tropes." (as the guidelines say to avoid) because, as already pointed out, nobody in this thread has made these arguments together . > You're suggesting that we may n…

I encourage readers to click on that link to all the commenting guidelines, and then carefully consider who is really breaking their spirit in this thread. Goodbye.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#512

Post by socksy » Mon, Sep 16, 2024, 7:57 AM UTC

Moto7451 wrote: post #153

tensor wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this is not new. There are many many many companies selling compensation metrics. This is also not salary fixing. These companies typically do not offer recommendations. It's up to each individual company to decide how to structure their salary bands and how they want to stack up to the market.

I actually run a product in this space in Europe as part of my portfolio. To echo your recommendation point; How we do it is pretty much the industry works. We give the low, mid, and high points in our data set based on what variables you input. We get the data from salary surveys and government data sets. It’s all very boring and above board. If companies choose to talk to each other to suppress salaries, they’re no…

What is the name of your European product, and is that data solely available to employers?

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#513

Post by cryptonym » Mon, Sep 16, 2024, 9:55 AM UTC

iamleppert wrote: post #473

If you've ever worked for a YC or Sequoia company, you're in a secret database with who you worked and how much you made that is accessible to other founders. The additional context is critical for startups to make competitive offers to startup employees. I don't see what the big deal is. If a worker is working at a company A making $80k, and they try to get a job a company B making $90k, the owner of company B needs…

> secret database

> I don't see what the big deal is

Pick one... If there is no big deal, why would they want to keep the database secret? Also, do you have any source on that?

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#514

Post by the_mitsuhiko » Mon, Sep 16, 2024, 2:06 PM UTC

SideQuark wrote: post #506

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wage fixing is when multiple companies agree to set wages at a certain amount. I am not an expert on wage fixing laws in the US, but I came across a class action on wage fixing a few days ago (Ron Brown et al v JBS USA Food Company et al) where part of what was aledged was the illegal exchange of salary data via surveys [1]. > The Red Meat Industry Compensation Survey conducted by WMS on behalf of the Defendant Pro…

>part of what was aledged was the illegal exchange of salary data via surveys Alleged doesn't mean illegal. In this case this point never saw court; the sides settled. And what this claimed to have happened is not what is happening here.

> Alleged doesn't mean illegal

What is alledged is that they did that. And if they did, they would have violated the law from my understanding.

> And what this claimed to have happened is not what is happening here.

That might be, but that's not entirely clear to me. I don't know if what Pave is doing is legal or not, but it seems to me that the line is quite fine and it would be fascinating to see this play out at court.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#515

Post by hammock » Mon, Sep 16, 2024, 5:22 PM UTC

flatpepsi17 wrote: post #510

hammock wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I opt out thru the payroll company?

No, but you can opt out at the Aggregator level. Currently, The Work Number is the largest salary aggregator, you may find this link, helpful: https://employees.theworknumber.com/employee-data-freeze

Thanks

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#516

Post by jldugger » Mon, Sep 16, 2024, 5:55 PM UTC

Salary surveys are not new. Robert Half does this already, and has for decades.

What RealPage does is sell a pricing algorithm using that data, which is the bit DoJ and Congress has an issue with.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#517

Post by swampthing » Thu, Sep 19, 2024, 6:42 AM UTC

vasco wrote: post #480

swampthing wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there’s a pretty big gap between “salary is the most effective way to attract and retain people” and “the only possible reason you’re not getting as many quality applicants as you might hope for is salary”. As a very basic example, your standards for quality may simply be unrealistic.

There's a big gap between those two statements but I made neither of them.

Uh, go back and read your post. You certainly made the first one :)

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#518

Post by CRConrad » Thu, Sep 19, 2024, 6:54 AM UTC

throw10920 wrote: post #434

Terr_ wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's this disingenuous "even though nobody in this thread has expressed [...]" No, what's disingenuous is your weird attempt to stifle an entirely on-topic discussion which has made you uncomfortable. You're suggesting that we may not criticize a stance or argument unless another Hacker News user has directly advocated for it . That's not how it works, or else we'd never be able to talk about things like the DMCA o…

> what's disingenuous Incorrect. I'm pointing out logical fallacies and emotional manipulation. Nothing disingenuous here, just rationality. > attempt to stifle an entirely on-topic discussion Incorrect. This is "flamebait....generic tangents...internet tropes." (as the guidelines say to avoid) because, as already pointed out, nobody in this thread has made these arguments together . > You're suggesting that we may n…

> That is not what you're doing - the free-market HN users that you're emotionally attacking

Who said they were talking about HN users? AFAICR, the GP explicitly said that was not what they were talking about.

Maybe you're not arguing from bad faith; just bad reading comprehension.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#519

Post by CRConrad » Thu, Sep 19, 2024, 7:23 AM UTC

willseth wrote: post #79

econcon wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unless you collude with other companies, doesn't seem like it is.

That is the entire basis for the RealPage lawsuit. The point is that if the effect on pricing is indistinguishable from price fixing, it doesn't matter if the act of colluding is abstracted into and laundered through a 3rd party with an algorithmic system responsible for setting prices.

As this guy argues, that this is also price fixing by algorithm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFk8V7mU0Wo .

(Got the link from a comment on another recent HN post, IIRC.)

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#520

Post by naikrovek » Thu, Sep 19, 2024, 1:18 PM UTC

bitcoin_anon wrote: post #257

naikrovek wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because web3 was a smuggling/laundering operation and those are illegal. basically, all cryptocurrency activity is immediately a suspicious activity.

Reminder that until recently, most cannabis patients relied on smugglers to treat their illnesses.

reminder that cannabis has been distributed quite successfully and broadly for hundreds if not thousands of years, all without blockchain.

blockchain is the solution to exactly nothing. zero things are better with blockchain. zero. in the case of hiding cannabis use, the problem is that it is illegal despite having valid medicinal uses.