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Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

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Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#511

Post by btrettel »

oceanghost wrote: post #500
btrettel wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add another datapoint, I first made this observation as a cyclist. Delivery truck drivers are notorious for blocking bike lanes. I spoke with people at the regional offices of FedEx, UPS, and Amazon Logistics. I recall that UPS and Amazon Logistics said their drivers are not supposed to block the bike lanes. (I can't remember what FedEx said.) I started talking to the drivers. Often the drivers would park in the b…

This is the cuddly version of psychopathy, forcing people to slightly inconvenience cyclists. This type of situation occurs anytime employee and manager incentives are misaligned, and blame can be shifted to the other. It's not that every human will take the bait-- its that ethical humans will be displaced by unethical ones.

> forcing people to slightly inconvenience cyclists

That's true on average. The inconvenience ranges from none at all to risking death. Fortunately the distribution is heavily skewed towards no inconvenience. I've very slowly become better at merging left from the far right as necessary over the past 5 years. The problem is aggressive drivers who pass too close. They're less than 1% of drivers best I can tell, but they're so bad that they have a strong effect on my behavior.

My current strategy is to start merging left with at least a 10 second gap (roughly) between the upcoming car and me. I turn around, wave my left hand, and wait for the driver to acknowledge me. Usually they nod, wave, or slow down a bit. No acknowledgement means no merging. If the gap is larger then I'll look but won't need acknowledgement to merge.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#512

Post by rorykoehler »

whalesalad wrote: post #5

Adderall and Cocaine. I remember a CEO of one of my early startups would give me 5mg addies to help me get more done. I appreciated it because it was great to get the added boost to focus. I eventually worked my way up to taking 30mg of XR daily (legally, doctor prescribed) and it was the most productive I have ever been in my life. I worked 24x7. I was working a normal consulting job while also working on a startup/…

I have a similar productive output currently as you described your amped up self to have and i drink 2 (sometimes 3) coffees a day. I get 1-2 hours cardio in 4 times a week and i spend time with my family. I sleep 7-8 hours a night. I take at least 1 day a weekend off completely.

Pills wouldn't help in fact they would make it more difficult. Organisation, ruthless priorization and discipline are the key. The rest is just distractions.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#513

Post by jernfrost »

Where I work it doesn't seem to be much, but there are certainly people who have tried weed. Some have done cocaine I know. I colleague of mine many years ago started doing cocaine at around 25 and he got into a lot of problems. I remember him talking about how drugs were much easier to handle when you start late and is much more mature. Turned out he was wrong and couldn't control it.

But I live in Norway, where I think drug usage is somewhat lower than in the US, at least for weed. I hear much more crazy stories about drug abuse from my blue collar friends from my old industrial home town.

Personally I don't even drink coffee. Occasionally I drink red bull to stay awake. I've tried soft drugs in the past many years ago but that had nothing to do with the industry, workload or anything like that.

However I do suffer a kind of burnout/mild depression and often think I would have loved to do drugs just to get through the days. But I know that is a horrible idea so I have no plans on acting on it. People never seem able to control their drug usage, no matter how certain they are before they start.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#514

Post by exelius »

Depends what you define as drug use; but yes.

I’m on the consulting side, and I personally take stimulants for ADHD, but I don’t abuse them. Stimulant abuse is pretty obvious on the job, be it coffee or meth, so it’s best to avoid them if you can get by without them.

I don’t drink or abuse illegal drugs; but I have known plenty of functional alcoholics and more than one literal code junkie. The culture honestly enables the alcoholics, and there’s nothing worse than being on a project with an alcoholic partner because they’ll make you go with them to the bar every night. Ugh.

Marijuana (normally hash oil in the form of vape pens) is a whole other thing. It’s nearly universal among consultants given our mobility and the high level of stress — nearly everyone has a friend on a project in a recreational state who brings back vape cartridges for their pals. Depends widely on the location and how illegal it is in various places of course.

Everyone has done it on the DL for years, but we’re just now starting to talk about it.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#515

Post by petercooper »

Only mentioning this because no-one else has, but.. beta blockers (e.g. propranolol).

Even at a very low dose, these have been a game changer for me when dealing with being on stage or heavily social situations where I might ordinarily fall into fight-or-flight.

This is all legal and apparently quite common though, so not the "sexiest" story for sure.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#516

Post by kelnos »

Blahah wrote: post #455
kelnos wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My understanding from my American friends and partner is that it's exactly the same in the USA. Students, software developers, people in finance - for all of them stimulants are normal. This is patently false, and I think your assumed universality of drug use is based in no small part on your use, and the crowds that you've associated with because of that drug use. I certainly know some people who've used stimulant…

I'm not sure what you think I was saying, but I was saying exactly what I said. My friends and partner report that it's normal - obviously in their social circles. I'm not making any claim about wider society. You quoted the word "everywhere" but I didn't use that word.

You said:

> Students, software developers, people in finance - for all of them stimulants are normal.

That's absolutely untrue. For certain (very small) subsets of those people (well, software developers, at least, which is my main area of experience), it certainly happens, but it is definitely not normal.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#517

Post by sethammons »

Chriky wrote: post #475
btrettel wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people I work with don't know that I don't take stimulants. In fact, it only ever comes up when I decline coffee from someone. I rarely ever mention it, and I hope my post did not come across as sanctimonious. Let me know if and how it did, so I can be more clear in the future. I just wanted to state my preference and reasoning.

It seems utterly nuts to me that someone could sleep at work as a reasonable alternative to drinking coffee. Most jobs and workplaces are just not at all set up to sleep during the working day.

I don't sleep at work and I don't take naps. Oddly, if I take caffeine, I get very tired and would probably want a nap. If someone at work took a nap, nobody would care as long as it was a shortish one, no meetings were missed, and the individual usually gets their work done. If someone was coming in and sleeping all day, I'm sure that would be a problem.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#518

Post by unimpressive »

Eilene wrote: post #168
Blahah wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was at Cambridge for 4 years and I can safely say that none of the professors in my department were using stimulants other than coffee. I can clock someone who is up across a crowded room. None of them were ever up. A large number of the ambitious PhD students and postdocs were though, and a very large proportion of the undergraduates. I think it's probably a generational thing. Students sell to students. Nobody is…

how can you tell if someone is up? Just from years of using stimulants yourself or are there obvious, telltale signs? I missed a boatload of them with Peter.

Flinches if surprised, picks at skin or scratches more than normal (there might be visible sores from this), intense preoccupation with things ordinarily beneath interest, hard to interrupt from work, drinks lots of water if responsible, particularly unconcerned with thirst if not. Particularly prone to discuss subjects at length, perhaps an unusually quiet or loud vocal tone.

There's also of course the side effect list, which usually reflects this sort of thing: https://www.drugs.com/sfx/amphetamine-side-effects.html

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#519

Post by ajmurmann »

btrettel wrote: post #389
woah wrote: post #84

I would be careful of overestimating the amount of stimulant use based on comments and emails here. People who use a lot of stimulants tend to love talking about themselves and often have a belief that anyone successful must be taking stimulants secretly. It plays into the motivation of most stimulant users which is that the stimulants have given them a special cheat code in life. I worked in construction in my young…

I'll second this. I don't even drink coffee. I've encountered people who seem absolutely incredulous that I take no stimulants at all. "How do you stay awake?" is something I'm asked. My go-to response now is "I don't. If I'm tired, I get more sleep." Some of these people probably think that I'm lying. There are a lot of people who think that sleeping at work is a bad idea, but I think it's a lot better than guzzling…

Do you mind sharing what books on memory you found particularly helpful?

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#520

Post by mancerayder »

CryoLogic wrote: post #174

I worked in a very toxic post-series-A tech startup trying to get acquired. We where all expected to work 8am-10pm and the CEO would always tell us that if we wanted to move up in the company we needed to work weekends as well. Just a 15 minute break would get you a lecture on work ethic from one of the upper-management who really micromanaged engineers. After about a year there I learned about half my team was takin…

I have to shake my head in a mix of pity and frustration when I hear that people are prepared to damage their health for 'the startup scene', and not stand up to CEO's like that. One way to do it is, you band together. If you don't trust your colleagues to band together with, leave. However, I don't think I would have lasted even a week there.

I can understand blue collar workers in a depressed industrial town, but I can't understand elite tech workers tolerating that stuff. I think part of it is youth, and letting people boss you around without being a leader. Sometimes banishing people from your professional circle is called for. Taking a risk of losing a job by standing up for yourself is a powerful lesson to take away and you might be shocked how beneficial it can be to career growth.

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