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Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

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Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#501

Post by 0xfaded »

nieksand wrote: post #2

Just a few cons.... The big players have drastically pushed up developer comp. The "maybe" money that might come from a best-case startup exit isn't holding up well against the RSUs of the big players. I have friends pushing total comp north of 400K / year at the usual suspect companies. Over a five-year-span-till-liquidity your "maybe" money is competing against a near-guaranteed $2M in comp. Equity grants for early…

The money aspect is interesting from a want-to-be founder's perspective.

Suppose you know you want to do a startup, but want to gain some "experience".

You could

  A) Work at FANG for 4 years, put away 200-300k, blow most of it in the first year learning how to run a startup.

  B) Work at a startup for 4 years, put away 50k, raise 200k seed and find yourself in roughly the same place, minus 10% equity.
For someone who doesn't intend to go on as a founder, my current conclusion is go to whoever will pay the most without completely compromising your morals.

The expected value of your options is not 400k, and even if you get lucky it wont be available for 8+ years. Dear 22 year old self, would you like to put a down payment on a house when your 30? If so, go get a job that aligns with your goals.

As others have mentioned here, as long as a founder isn't blatantly fraudulent, things tend to work out quite well for them. Founders learn the most and are often in the position to try again, either in the form of another startup or as a product manager within an established company. FAANG companies are also hungry for aquihires, so its possible that founders holding preferred stock may even walk away with something.

As an employee, the butt end of the bimodal distribution is probably negative. It's easiest to get through the FAANG hiring process as a new-grad, and not having one on your resume makes it even harder to break back in later.

My experiences only. I interned at and ultimately turned down a FAANG for startups 5 years ago. In the process of starting my own now.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#502

Post by ccajas »

hox wrote: post #484
colechristensen wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A startup is a good place to accelerate yourself to an L5 somewhere else. If you are on a team of n 1000.

True in some regards, but it’s also incredibly easy to learn how to do things the wrong way, if you have no one to learn from.

>but it’s also incredibly easy to learn how to do things the wrong way, if you have no one to learn from

Yep, say hello to startups who go cheap by outsourcing to developers who are not as good in their craft or don't care about learning more.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#503

Post by itgoon »

mcafeeryan92 wrote: post #487

I see a lot of talk about comp, and that is 100% an issue (particularly considering the time-value of money, that every year that you're earning more money you can earn ~10% long-term on that in your IRA/401k). But, considering there is only so much money that startups have access to, and most early employees are not primarily motivated by money (I would hope, or else they are likely quite naive), the biggest let-dow…

I like this. I'd be more open to lower compensation if it meant that I would have opportunities to open my own shop.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#504

Post by roguecoder »

ObsoleteMailMan wrote: post #82

This is a bit nuanced, but i'll try to be brief: - housing in the bay area is substantially more expensive now, so you need to already be pretty qualified in your role to justify your cost - this partially goes against Paul Buchheit's old point that startups allow you to do work you'd otherwise be unqualified to do - because startups work on building (rather than maintaining) products, the tech skills that startups w…

San Francisco needs to build some frikken housing if it wants to keep adding jobs. That so much of the city is covered in single family homes is an affront to everyone trying to work here.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#505

Post by dmode »

ironjunkie wrote: post #397
dmode wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FAANGS give you RSUs, which are cash equivalent. When I am referring to 400K, I am referring to "total cash in hand" at the end of the year. Generally the comp you get quoted when you get hired is $200K base + $200K in RSUs based on hire date's stock price. So in today's frothy stock market, you would at least earn $400K and possibly more.

that's what I'm saying. I'm clarifying that the value of the RSU is when you got them at the time of the offer. Not at the time you sell it or vest it.

I see. But for most people, when they look at their W-2 they will see the total cash they earned. So it is fair that people call that their salary.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#506

Post by IggleSniggle »

manigandham wrote: post #375
gaius wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because founders take at least 100x the risk of an early employee, and 100x the personal risk and commitment. Absolute rubbish. Considering the opportunity cost, lost benefits and so on compared to a BigCo an early stage employee is easily going to be 6-figures in, and probably working 80+ hours a week. All so the founders can toss them a few scraps from the feast. Meaningful equity participation or big-company pay a…

What's rubbish is thinking that people don't have personal responsibility. If someone who can "easily" get 6-figures and the luxurious benefits of a BigCo decide to work for a startup instead, then that's their choice and there's no moral judgement needed.

Partial agree. Folks also shoulder responsibility for knowingly scamming young folk that don’t know any better yet.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#507

Post by [deleted] »

philangist wrote: post #477
aswanson wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FAANGMUA. The acronyms just keep getting better.

The best one I've seen yet is GAANDU (Google, Amazon, AirBnb, Netflix, Dropbox and Uber). Apparently it means asshole in Hindi. https://www.teamblind.com/article/Breakdown-of-compensation-...

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#508

Post by user5994461 »

jzl wrote: post #274
aphextron wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The big players have drastically pushed up developer comp. The "maybe" money that might come from a best-case startup exit isn't holding up well against the RSUs of the big players. I have friends pushing total comp north of 400K / year at the usual suspect companies. Over a five-year-span-till-liquidity your "maybe" money is competing against a near-guaranteed $2M in comp. I can second this. But it's not just the m…

The other goal of "unlimited vacation" is that companies don't have to pay out banked vacation days upon end of employment.

I guess that depends on the jurisdiction. I worked at a company with unlimited vacations and they had to pay. It got quite complicated to estimate due days when employees started leaving in droves and there was no record of any holiday taken.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#509

Post by itgoon »

Here's one that may have been mentioned, but wow, there are a lot of comments.

Founders: get over yourselves. I understand that you have to have a lot of faith in yourself to do what you're doing.

At the very least, try to have some humility, and maybe understand that what you're doing may not be world-changing after all.

How many good employees were passed over just because they didn't appreciate your "vision"? Furthermore, why should anyone care?

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#510

Post by ccajas »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #26
ggregoire wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I joined a startup and the rewards were not worth the risks as an early employee. Which risks did you take?

Risk of not earning similar to what FAANG offer.

It's not simply compensation, but the variety and flexibility of learning or working in different things, and from others.

Try doing that with a startup whose bulk of development is done overseas. No personal work connection, lack of meaningful discussion (due to time zones and cultural/philosophy barrier), no concern for your growth as an individual. You are more likely to be distant from your workers due to startups' smaller budgets discouraging the use of in-house developers.

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