Ask HN: What is it like working at Netflix? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: What is it like working at Netflix?

#51

Post by diab0lic » Sun, Jul 19, 2015, 1:59 AM UTC

kethinov wrote: post #48

diab0lic wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, I apologize, I had assumed you're familiar with the Netflix option program and just inappropriately using the term ESPP. We have a rather straightforward option program in which you purchase an immediately vesting option for 40% of the current market price, strike price is equal to the current market price. If the stock doesn't increase 40% (used to be 20%) then you don't just break even, that money is gone. T…

Interesting, thanks for the additional detail. I am not a critic of a system like that. However, that doesn't explicitly refute my point. Am I wrong in assuming that there are no limits on ESPP contribution? If that is indeed the case, then my argument stands.

I don't believe there are any limits on the option program contribution. I'm not trying to refute your point, I imagine we just both have a philosophical difference in view on wether or not this is good.

Re: Ask HN: What is it like working at Netflix?

#52

Post by CognitiveLens » Sun, Jul 19, 2015, 2:18 AM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #50

kethinov wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I can't think of any situation where an employee makes less money because the policy is available to them than if the policy weren't available to them. That isn't the point. The point is it's immoral to pay people more simply because they are already wealthy.

I now understand your point, and I thank you for that. It was escaping me, because I so strongly hold the opposing point of view. Thank you for explaining it. My view is that with an ESPP policy, Netflix helps align employee incentives with investor (and executive) incentives, and that makes those employees more likely to act as shareholders and take a pro-company mindset. It serves a legitimate purpose and is a hell…

I'm not sure how removing a policy that "poor" employees can't take advantage of hurts them. The claim is that employees who can't afford to defer earnings are in effect denied access to the perk - it is therefore a regressive perk that widens the gap between those at the top end and those at the bottom end, regardless of how it shapes the overall incentive structure.

It definitely serves a legitimate business purpose, but the employees who can't afford to participate are relatively worse off. Taking away the perk removes one source of imbalance, at a slight cost to the people who could afford to take advantage of it. But like you say, "rich" employees have many other investment options.

Re: Ask HN: What is it like working at Netflix?

#53

Post by kentbrew » Sun, Jul 19, 2015, 2:23 AM UTC

kentbrew wrote: post #26

Netflix employee 2009-2011; built the user-facing parts of the original iPhone and Android apps. If you are an engineer--sorry, can't speak to other roles--and you can possibly swing a stint at Netflix, do so. They move fast, pay a ton, and you'll build a universally-loved product with some of the smartest people in the world.

Oh, and with regards to unlimited vacation (or parental leave, for that matter): if your company offers it, take it. Especially if you are a manager, and 10x especially if you are a founder or C-level person. If leadership doesn't take vacation, vacation is Not Taken.

Re: Ask HN: What is it like working at Netflix?

#54

Post by kethinov » Sun, Jul 19, 2015, 2:33 AM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #50

kethinov wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I can't think of any situation where an employee makes less money because the policy is available to them than if the policy weren't available to them. That isn't the point. The point is it's immoral to pay people more simply because they are already wealthy.

I now understand your point, and I thank you for that. It was escaping me, because I so strongly hold the opposing point of view. Thank you for explaining it. My view is that with an ESPP policy, Netflix helps align employee incentives with investor (and executive) incentives, and that makes those employees more likely to act as shareholders and take a pro-company mindset. It serves a legitimate purpose and is a hell…

How is paying people who are already wealthy more than people who are poor helping the poor?

Re: Ask HN: What is it like working at Netflix?

#55

Post by kethinov » Sun, Jul 19, 2015, 2:33 AM UTC

diab0lic wrote: post #51

kethinov wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, thanks for the additional detail. I am not a critic of a system like that. However, that doesn't explicitly refute my point. Am I wrong in assuming that there are no limits on ESPP contribution? If that is indeed the case, then my argument stands.

I don't believe there are any limits on the option program contribution. I'm not trying to refute your point, I imagine we just both have a philosophical difference in view on wether or not this is good.

I'm not talking about options, which as you pointed out do indeed carry risk, I'm talking about ESPP. They're different programs.

Re: Ask HN: What is it like working at Netflix?

#56

Post by svachalek » Sun, Jul 19, 2015, 5:07 AM UTC

kethinov wrote: post #55

diab0lic wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe there are any limits on the option program contribution. I'm not trying to refute your point, I imagine we just both have a philosophical difference in view on wether or not this is good.

I'm not talking about options, which as you pointed out do indeed carry risk, I'm talking about ESPP. They're different programs.

I don't think there is an ESPP at Netflix.

Re: Ask HN: What is it like working at Netflix?

#57

Post by oldmanjay » Sun, Jul 19, 2015, 5:55 AM UTC

kethinov wrote: post #43

sokoloff wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would an unlimited ESPP be a bad thing, especially to the point of being a "toxic policy"? Does it really matter if someone else takes more advantage of that than you? I'd love that as a perk, even if it made someone else even more money. I care about me and my family, not how much someone else gets...

Because any company which rewards people with extra money for deferring 100% of their comp for six months is elitist. The vast majority of their staff can't afford that and are therefore paid less for being poorer.

if the intent of the hiring policy is to get elite employees, then being elitist seems like an excellent plan

Re: Ask HN: What is it like working at Netflix?

#58

Post by nicholas73 » Sun, Jul 19, 2015, 6:02 AM UTC

diab0lic wrote: post #46

kethinov wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those who are rich can afford to take more risk, and they are taking more risk by putting more in. No, that's not how ESPP works. There is zero risk that they'll make less money than someone who takes it all as salary instead. It's a guaranteed significant increase in income. > Unlimited stock contribution being a bonus for already rich employees: Really? Really?! I say this as someone who came in with a negative n…

Right, I apologize, I had assumed you're familiar with the Netflix option program and just inappropriately using the term ESPP. We have a rather straightforward option program in which you purchase an immediately vesting option for 40% of the current market price, strike price is equal to the current market price. If the stock doesn't increase 40% (used to be 20%) then you don't just break even, that money is gone. T…

This sounds terrible. I can't find option data since they just had a split, but 40% sounds incredibly high even if the options don't expire. Furthermore the growth phase for NFLX likely has peaked, so what is the point in buying illiquid options? Can employees even sell these options?

Furthermore at-the-market strike prices give you the least amount of leverage. What is the point of accepting the risk of complete loss and illiquidity when you can put up just 2.5x more and buy the damn shares outright?

Re: Ask HN: What is it like working at Netflix?

#59

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jul 19, 2015, 6:29 AM UTC

diab0lic wrote: post #29

I currently work at Netflix. Opinions contained herein are entirely my own, sorry for any errors I typed this on a phone. Hope I can help you make a decision. More than willing to answer any questions, just reply here. :) The turnover rate you quoted is undoubtedly overstated or at least out of date. As for getting fired within a month, it won't happen. People are generally let go for a repeated pattern of major fail…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: What is it like working at Netflix?

#60

Post by spoon16 » Sun, Jul 19, 2015, 7:25 AM UTC

kjackson wrote: post #39

spoon16 wrote: post #4

I worked in two different groups while I was at Netflix. I loved it. The engineers on their team are consistently good and there is low tolerance for under performers. They take their culture seriously and their leadership is very strong. I'd be happy to work for them again in the future. Re: expectations about excess work. It's your own responsibility to set expectations about what you can get done and how quickly y…

Thank you! May I ask why you decided to eventually leave? And do you regret leaving?

I don't regret leaving. I've had a lot of fun working outside of Netflix. I do still hold Netflix in very high regard though and have a number of good friends still working there. If the conditions were right, I'd go back in a heartbeat.