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Ask HN: Has anyone used machine learning to trade?

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Re: Ask HN: Has anyone used machine learning to trade?

#51

I have friends who do this, and they told me, anecdotally, that for every 10 trades they do, 8 or 9 lose money. While they do make it up on the rest, you have to ask yourself if you can afford the costs (brokerage commissions and fees) of executing your strategy in that context (they all work for banks and hedge funds). If you really want to get into this, you might be better off applying to a quant-based hedge fund.…

I do this and I make money in 1 out 2 trades. Do you know what the heck you are talking about ?

http://www.brettsteenbarger.com/articles.htm

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone used machine learning to trade?

#52
I just want to add that I read some of the Turtle Trader books and one more on Trend Following. The last book finally got across to me the point that the trend followers used computers and math not to try and predict where the markets were headed but rather to try and classify markets as rising, falling, or side to side. Their theory is that once a market has a direction it is likely to keep that direction - until it changes.

This is very different from most of the stuff I read about with neural nets. In most of the other books the idea to try and predict when markets are over sold or about to change so that you can be in on the ground floor.

I'm doing a webapp about card counting at black jack and the trend following approach seems a lot more like the reality of card counting. When the deck is hot or in your favor you bet more. Most people think that card counting is a super complicated exercise in combinatorics where the player is recalculating basic strategy in real time and able to prove that certain plays are the best.

Just something to consider.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone used machine learning to trade?

#53
How much do you know about trading now? If you know little, I would recommend the textbook Trading & Exchanges by Larry Harris. It's somewhat out of date but still very good. I work at a high-frequency trading shop and that is the first book they shove at you when you walk in the door.

Other than that, I'd like to second what several other people have already said: getting a job at a firm is a good way to learn, you're outgunned in terms of brains and money, and 10k is probably too little. Now, you can do a lot of learning for 0k while you save money, and every startup is outgunned by goog, msft, but that doesn't mean there isn't room in the ecosystem. Like a startup against an established player, you could find a niche that is going unexploited. What makes trading harder is the established players don't tell you much about what they're doing, so you don't know if you are doing something new or walking into a trading strategy perfected 10 years ago by DE Shaw. With a software startup, you have more information about what your competitors are selling, what their products are, how you might differentiate yourself, what's missing from the internet, etc. Software companies promote their products and try to get public attention; trading shops try to keep as many secrets as possible.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone used machine learning to trade?

#54
post #51

I have friends who do this, and they told me, anecdotally, that for every 10 trades they do, 8 or 9 lose money. While they do make it up on the rest, you have to ask yourself if you can afford the costs (brokerage commissions and fees) of executing your strategy in that context (they all work for banks and hedge funds). If you really want to get into this, you might be better off applying to a quant-based hedge fund.…

I do this and I make money in 1 out 2 trades. Do you know what the heck you are talking about ? http://www.brettsteenbarger.com/articles.htm

Then you must be fabulously wealthy.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone used machine learning to trade?

#55
You might find it interesting to look at this site, which gives you a lot of the infrastructure for testing your FX strategies with real time data (although not direct access to the data).

http://preview.collective2.com/

Strategies are independently monitored and ranked on the site, and can be switched from simulations to real accounts when you're ready. If your strategy performs well, it will be noticed and you can get paid commissions on it (potentially helpful for raising capital).

For FX and equity data, you might as well use Yahoo finance. I run a Slicehost server that scrapes it once every minute with no problem. It's not ultra high frequency but you can't hope to compete in that space anyway, as others have pointed out. You should start building a historical database now before you do anything else, so that you'll have something ready when you need it. You probably don't need years and years of it.

I worked as a quant for a while and would support the other comments that standard ML techniques are unlikely to outperform, but you might be the exception.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone used machine learning to trade?

#58
post #51

I have friends who do this, and they told me, anecdotally, that for every 10 trades they do, 8 or 9 lose money. While they do make it up on the rest, you have to ask yourself if you can afford the costs (brokerage commissions and fees) of executing your strategy in that context (they all work for banks and hedge funds). If you really want to get into this, you might be better off applying to a quant-based hedge fund.…

I do this and I make money in 1 out 2 trades. Do you know what the heck you are talking about ? http://www.brettsteenbarger.com/articles.htm

Half your momentum trades are profitable? Is that before or after trading costs? How often and at what volumes are you trading?

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone used machine learning to trade?

#59
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do this and I make money in 1 out 2 trades. Do you know what the heck you are talking about ? http://www.brettsteenbarger.com/articles.htm

Half your momentum trades are profitable? Is that before or after trading costs? How often and at what volumes are you trading?

All I can say is that 8/10 are losers is highly improbable. Given no other information, if you enter a trade there is a 50/50 chance that the next tick is going to be up or down. But notice I said given no other information, there is much more information from the behavior of the charts. If you are a small player the charts will help you be right more than 50% of the time. The rest is how your algorithms and trading methodology take advantage of the information.
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