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Ask HN: What are some Bay Area startups that don't use an open office plan?

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Re: Ask HN: What are some Bay Area startups that don't use an open office plan?

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buy some really nice noise canceling headphones is definitely top of the preparation list. You'll be wearing them 80+% of your day.

I have found that whatever peace blocking noise gives you, it is more than offset by the paranoia of being watched or the terror of people sneaking up behind you.

FWIW, I've seen some people attach a small convex mirror to the edge of their monitor to avoid this kind of surprise. I'd expect this is just trading audio distractions for visual ones, though.

Re: Ask HN: What are some Bay Area startups that don't use an open office plan?

#52
TLDR: The benefit is to the team, not the individual. When executing open concept, ensure communication is relevant to the team by not including unrelated teams in the same space. We have had private and open offices; we're much happier with the results of open offices.

Overview:

First, we believe the benefit of the open office space is derived at the organization/team level by an increase in communication and ambient awareness. The mental load of this awareness and communication negatively affects the productivity of individuals but results a net benefit to the whole. This is why many individuals working in an open space will have their complaints, but project managers/product owners will often sing the open concept's praises. I'm in the latter group but I work in our open office as well.

In Practice:

Here in our office, we've done it both ways. We're located in Texas and space is plentiful, we've got enough private offices to go around and we did it that way for quite some time. After years of struggling through project overrun, bugs, and misallocated resources we decided to try an open concept.

Doing it Wrong:

The difference in team productivity couldn't be more apparent, at first it was much worse... we combined QA, Engineering, and Customer Service in one open concept office. Everyone was unhappy; Customer Service was constantly talking and distracting others with their one-sided phone calls, QA was very collaborative and yet had to talk over Customer Service, and the poor engineering team was just annoyed by both and resorted to headphones and instant messaging each other.

Doing it Right (the second time):

We realized that the biggest benefit in better communication is to the teams of people who are directly working on building our new products and features and anything else in the room just distracts from those goals.

After reorganizing our teams we moved QA and Customer Service out of the room, and instead filled it with more engineering teams and added our design and product teams as well. By including the right teams in the open space, the ambient noise level is much lower, when conversations do occur they're often directly relevant to all other teams in the room. Overall everyone is much happier in the open space even though some miss the privacy of their own offices.

To address the needs of those who occasionally need to work in a quiet place, we've turned a few of our private offices into "break out rooms" where anyone can go work as they wish. They're a great place to take phone calls and they're communal and provide limited amenities so nobody is occupying them constantly and removing themselves from their core team.

Months Later / Conclusions:

Today, we have one large open office which includes web engineers, iOS engineers, Android engineers, OSX/Windows engineers, UX designers, quality assurance, and product managers. We have breakout rooms for private work and all other staff is in private offices just outside the open space.

After our second try at an open office we can confidently say that we made the right decision. We've launched two major products in one quarter of the time it took to previously launch one. We've launched numerous bug fixes, updates, and features. And most importantly, our metrics not only show the real world results of that work, but everyone on the team is aware of them in their everyday workflow. The pace of development is not only faster, but we're making better engineering and design decisions. And, as an added benefit, our sense of team solidarity and moral is way up as well. People (who previously had private offices) still occasionally complain about being distracted, and sometimes they choose to work in a breakout room, but overall everyone has adjusted now and feels like we're kicking butt.

Of course, I'm simplifying months of thoughts and work down as much as I can here, and there's a lot more in the details of executing a good open office. I'm happy to expand on anything if this is at all helpful to anyone.

Re: Ask HN: What are some Bay Area startups that don't use an open office plan?

#53
post #20

What I find is that the people that work for me are much more distracted by FB and the plethora of other web distractions than other developers.

^This. Note that we're all commenting on HN right now complaining about how open offices destroy our productivity.

I get to choose when I go to HN. I just closed a bug I'd spent the better part of the week on, I'm fine with relaxing.

In an open office I lacked the ability to choose interruptions. I still remember Dipesh coming over, slamming his hands down on my shoulders, to ask "what's up buddy". You could hear the stack falling out of my brain. He just wanted to chat.

Re: Ask HN: What are some Bay Area startups that don't use an open office plan?

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buy some really nice noise canceling headphones is definitely top of the preparation list. You'll be wearing them 80+% of your day.

I have found that whatever peace blocking noise gives you, it is more than offset by the paranoia of being watched or the terror of people sneaking up behind you.

This a million times.

For me visual distractions (even if it is just people walking) are a lot worse than noise. I can tune out the chatter but whenever I feel or see movement around me, my head snaps to attention to find out what it is. Some evolutionary thing most likely

Re: Ask HN: What are some Bay Area startups that don't use an open office plan?

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have them also, you might want to look to get some replacement ear pads http://www.amazon.com/Beyerdynamic-Velour-Earcushions-MDR750...

I have the twin headphone Sony-MDRV6. They are awesome, but suffer from the same earpad issue. I've had them for 10 years now (yikes). The earpads will go and start flaking (for me after 5 years). They are easy to replace though.

Yeah, the MDRV6 with Beyerdynamic Velour earcushions are my secret sauce for getting in the zone. The stock pleather earpads will give you "hot ears" that make long shifts uncomfortable.

If you keep going down the audiophile rabbit hole like I did, next up is a DAC or a tube amp. A good starter cheap one (sub $100) is the Qinpu:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001TGDB9Q/

Re: Ask HN: What are some Bay Area startups that don't use an open office plan?

#56
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have found that whatever peace blocking noise gives you, it is more than offset by the paranoia of being watched or the terror of people sneaking up behind you.

This a million times. For me visual distractions (even if it is just people walking) are a lot worse than noise. I can tune out the chatter but whenever I feel or see movement around me, my head snaps to attention to find out what it is. Some evolutionary thing most likely

Maybe we could invent sight-cancelling glasses to go with the headphones?

Re: Ask HN: What are some Bay Area startups that don't use an open office plan?

#57
post #38

A bit off topic, but does anyone here prefer / not mind open office plans? As someone who prefers open office plans to private offices / cubicles, I've always wondered if the large number of anti-open-plan articles are because that opinion is the majority, or because it is the loud minority.

I don't mind it. I think it helps me do my job.

This is the first job I've worked that the company had a sales team. One of my jobs is developing solutions for the sales team. Being able to overhear their interactions with customers is invaluable to understanding the types of technology solutions they need.

That being said, right now our two engineers sit in the middle of sales guy crossfire. 3 sales guys in front of me, 2 behind me, all talking in my direction. That's not ideal, and we're going to change that soon.

It's also helpful if you consider a programmer at a startup to be more than a programmer. Sure, I don't sit and code for 8 hours a day, but I'm also a product guy, marketing guy, growth guy, business dev idea guy, etc. That's what I love about startups. Sure, I get to work on cool coding work, but I also get to contribute and shape almost all the other things that I do, and I can do that better by being exposed to all sides of the business in the open plan.

Now, as we grow we plan on separating off engineering teams so they can focus, but at an early stage startup being in the heart of everything is invaluable.

Re: Ask HN: What are some Bay Area startups that don't use an open office plan?

#58

TLDR: The benefit is to the team, not the individual. When executing open concept, ensure communication is relevant to the team by not including unrelated teams in the same space. We have had private and open offices; we're much happier with the results of open offices. Overview: First, we believe the benefit of the open office space is derived at the organization/team level by an increase in communication and ambien…

Doesn't answer the question though; maybe OP just doesn't like to work in that environment regardless of its merits.

Re: Ask HN: What are some Bay Area startups that don't use an open office plan?

#59
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More Distractions - get a good pair of headphones some people swear by those noise cancelling ones.

Parent probably talking about Bose QC-15 mythical noise cancelling headphones. Some people say their build quality is meh, which prevented me from buying them.

I have never tried them. A £10 pair or cheap sonys from the local hifi shop was the ones I used at my last workplace.

Re: Ask HN: What are some Bay Area startups that don't use an open office plan?

#60
post #2

A somewhat related question: I'm about to start a job at a company with "open office" structure, after having my own office for the last 4 years. Anything I should be prepared for? EDIT: Any headphones suggestions?

Check out the various levels of headphones on The Wirecutter. http://thewirecutter.com/leaderboard/headphones/ I use the Sony MDR-7506 which are rated as the best $150 Over Ear Headphones (actually $90ish on Amazon) and they are very popular with audio pros. Not noise canceling but they are comfortable enough for wearing all day and if you're listening to something, you don't have sound leaking in or out.

I've been highly recommending Sony's for a long time now, but for my left-at-work pair, I use a MDR-XD200 headset that I paid $18 new 10 years ago. They're nearly indestructible, sound better than most non-Sony sets I've tested them against and when I've got music playing, they block out the world really well. And, most importantly, they're so comfortable that I forget I've got them on...I almost wish they were less comfortable so I didn't have them ripped off my head when I stand up without remembering to take them off first.

I use a more expensive pair of Sony's at home where there's less chance they'll be damaged.

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