Ask HN: How did you really learn a foreign language?

I became good friends with a guy who worked in our company's Mexico City office. A few years later, I decided to take the plunge and move to Mexico City myself. It didn't hurt that the girls I chased (including the one I eventually married) didn't speak much English.

I've now been here five years, and my Spanish isn't bad. It's important to make an effort, though. I've met people from overseas who've put in little effort—a real shame.

Moving to a different country isn't a realistic option for many people, and you didn't say where you're located, but if you're in the States, chances are there are plenty of Spanish speakers in your area. Why not talk to them?

As you meet Spanish-speakers qua Spanish-speakers, be sure to identify who'll give you "correct" advice and who won't. It's important to be able to understand and to be understood while communicating in various contexts. I've learned lots of useful things about Spanish from pedants, people who play fast and loose with the language, and everyone in between.

And there's plenty of well-edited Spanish language material freely available: es.wikipedia.org is generally decent. (By the way, wikipedia can be an excellent translation tool: when you're looking up some very specific term whose precise translation won't be found in a dictionary, try searching for it on en.wikipedia.org and see if there's a link to es.wikipedia.org) Some newspapers with online presences include http://www.eluniversal.com.mx (Mexico), http://www.elpais.com (Spain), and http://www.lanacion.com (Argentina); there are, of course, many others. Chances are decent that there are blogs that cover topics you're interested in, but be wary, as the quality of editing can and does vary considerably. Incorrect spelling abounds!

As you improve, you'll be able to read books in Spanish. My first book was a translation of one I'd read originally in English. I think this was a good idea, because I didn't have to worry about vocabulary I didn't understand. Reading Spanish-language authors in the original is even more satisfying. I'm currently working through Bolaño's oeuvre. Borges and Sepúlveda are other favorites, but I've really only just scratched the surface. (I've also read some stuff translated from third languages, such as several books by Murakami.)

As for references: The 501 Verbs series of books is useful (I have some minor quarrels with the Spanish one, but there's nothing out and out wrong, and I do recommend it). I like my Harper Collins Spanish/English dictionary; in addition to a good range of vocabulary, it has one of the best grammar references, in terms of both clarity and layout, that I've had the pleasure to see. (A minor issue for some with Harper Collins is that it has a slight focus on English as she is spoke in the UK and Spanish as it's spoken in Iberia; unlikely to be a problem, but I'd be remiss if I didn't mention it.) http://www.wordreference.com is an excellent resource. I also have a 5-way pictorial dictionary which has proven handy at times.

Eventually you'll outgrow whatever Spanish/English dictionary you settle upon and you'll want a more comprehensive, Spanish-only dictionary. The RAE's (http://www.rae.es) dictionary is considered by many but not all to be the most definitive. http://www.rae2.es is a more minimal interface to the RAE's content.

So, stick with it and have fun. Learning a new language is very satisfying and obviously very useful too.

Most people are actually really helpful if they sense that you're trying to learn their language and make an effort.

But as everything else in life you have to be determined if you want to succeed. Talk to the storeowner when you go shopping, find a coffee shop you like become a regular and start chatting to people and become known as that guy that's learning to speak Spanish, get a native girlfriend, get a job where you have to speak the language, etc.

This is just my personal experience with their Mandarin Chinese software (disclosure: offered free through my college language lab, otherwise I never would have touched it): I hated it. I understand the idea of immersion behind the software, but I found it incredibly hard to grasp any real working knowledge of grammar and cultural aspects/differences, it just feels a lot more like a super expensive flashcard app with a few gimmicks. Plus the whole immersion thing was supposed to avoid you "translating" into a language you are comfortable with and then translating that into the new language...I didn't find myself skipping that "bridge" with Rosetta Stone. I gave up on the software after being bored out of my mind in a couple weeks before my Chinese class started, and just went back to textbooks and resources like chinesepod.com, where after a couple weeks of that I started to feel more comfortable about doing the very thing Rosetta Stone seeks to skip, a lot in part because Rosetta Stone was incredibly unhelpful with grammar and such. Then the class started, and being able to converse with and get tips from native speakers helped immensely.

On the other hand, I found Pimsleur and similar methods of learning languages to be semi-helpful and possibly worth spending money on. No replacement for memorizing things and total immersion via traveling/marrying someone/studying abroad, but when you're stuck in traffic in the car, listening and practicing speaking can do volumes to help.

In the end, I just got a flashcard app for my iPhone, stocked up on MP3s and videos to watch and listen to, and I think that was more helpful than Rosetta Stone ever could be. I'm not sure if there's any research or studies behind language acquisition via Rosetta Stone, but when I'm an adult, I don't see the benefit in learning a language as if I was a toddler again. I had learned French in high school and learning Spanish afterwards was ridiculously easier because I had already had "basics" like grammar down pretty well, as well as an easier time learning vocabulary as there are many cognates. Not that I remember much of either language anymore, but there are some times when taking advantage of what an adult already knows is faster and more helpful than learning like a baby.

I learned English by playing video games. Back in the day they didn't localize the games or the manuals, so I had to read them in English.

>On the other hand, I found Pimsleur and similar methods of learning languages to be semi-helpful and possibly worth spending money on.

Arg. Sorry but I have to disagree. I used Pimsleur to get up and running quickly with Dutch, and later realized that (other than for practicing basic pronunciation) it's worthless. That was two/three years ago, and now that I'm at a much higher level, I've gone back and listened to the phrases they wanted me to learn.

Junk. Some phrases were severely antiquated, words were mis-translated so you may be saying a phrase and you actually don't know what you're saying, etc. The only thing it's good for is listen/read/repeat pronunciation, and that's not so good when driving.

Rosetta Stone's a bit better since you're listening/reading/repeating, and learning some real vocabulary, but you're spot on: it feels like it's for kids. As far as language learning software goes, I only found one that was worth anything, and it came with a Dutch textbook (CODE series... Dutch only). It has movies/audio/text with quizzes afterward, vocabulary/grammar exercises, and listen/repeat/playback feature.

Pro-tip for the OP: Languages are living things, you can't learn them by yourself. Any native speaker, no matter how unprofessional or unskilled at language teaching, is much more help then some software tool. Your office cleaning lady (who's probably better at Spanish then you'll ever be) earns less than $10/hour. For the same price of Rosetta Stone Spanish 1-5 ($700) you could have 70 hours of speaking time with a really interesting person.

I found a Berkeley exchange grad student who was teaching Dutch for $15/hour on the side, learned a lot, and we ended up falling in love with each other. Not saying that will happen for you, but it reinforces my 'find a native speaker' method. :)