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Ask HN: Why is the hacker scene so hostile to women and black people?

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Re: Ask HN: Why is the hacker scene so hostile to women and black people?

#51

Post by andrewcooke »

jd0 wrote: post #33

This post was very briefly on the top of /ask but now it's gone from that page altogether... honestly that's fucked up! It seems like it was a moderator decision, older posts with less comments and upvotes remain, why was this post removed? please ask info@ycombinator.com

it has way more comments that votes, which triggers automatic downvoting.

[and i see that you immediately assume - with no evidence or knowledge of how ranking here works - that it was excluded "actively and consciously" rather than through some automated process.... at what point do you start to question your own process of solving problems? maybe blaming everyone else is not always right?]

Re: Ask HN: Why is the hacker scene so hostile to women and black people?

#52

Post by SamReidHughes »

jd0 wrote: post #50
SamReidHughes wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop worrying about computer science specifically -- it's no different in engineering fields, and worse in the sciences. The reasons are not specific to CS.

I'm addressing CS because it's relevant to me. It's a community that I participate in so I'm addressing this issue in my community. Honestly though, the gap between women and men in CS is far greater than other fields.

You're replying to a reply about blacks' presence in these fields, not women's.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the hacker scene so hostile to women and black people?

#53

Post by ddd1600 »

jd0 wrote: post #16
carsongross wrote: post #11

Well, one thing that could be done to change this would be to stop complaining about how one of the most meritocratic groups of people in the history of mankind is hostile, and get forking. The code is thataway: https://github.com/

Your attitude is childish and short-sighted. When certain groups are -by default- disadvantaged compared to a dominant group, just saying "go do work like I did" - is meaningless.

Res Ipsa Loquitur.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the hacker scene so hostile to women and black people?

#54

Post by gmays »

jd0 wrote: post #38
gmays wrote: post #36

'Hostile' is quite a leap and makes more assumptions than are worth addressing. You claim hostility, but it sounds like you might mean underrepresentation? Regardless, it's for the same reasons that the NFL and NBA are 'hostile' to Asians, Indians, and any other underrepresented group: they're not. It's just a function of what people are culturally exposed to growing up and what we're conditioned to see. It's silly t…

Thanks for your response. In reference to your addressing the word "hostile" check this recent comment I made to try and clarify the use of that word: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6879195 That comment only addresses women though - but hostile was more-so a trigger word than what I actually meant. I'm trying to address societal disadvantages faced by certain groups - these are not consciously hostile but they…

> "I'm simply asking, how can the hacker scene adjust to not only help non-white non-male groups, but to stop driving them away in increasing numbers?"

How is the community driving them away? I feel like I touched on this in my original response, but I still don't see how the underrepresentation equates to being driven away. "Driving away" implies some level of hostility, which you claim only to mean "societal disadvantages." It seems in attempt to sensationalize, you end up confusing the issue because by talking about two disparate things as if they were the same.

I'm actually very surprised how accepting this community is. Not only am I black, but I came from a military background with no tech working experience, just hobby experience. Additionally, I spent two years between Iraq and Afghanistan on small teams, something this audience isn't exactly keen on. If there was anyone who would face "hostility" or be "driven away" it'd be me. I'm amazed at how welcoming the community has been. I remember after going to my first conference I told my wife (also a Marine) that I finally felt like I belonged somewhere. By the way, my wife came to the same conference with me and loved it as well. She's still a Marine, flies F/A-18's, and talked with the guys at dinner about the future of aviation, drones, etc. She thought the community was awesome despite barely being able to use her smartphone.

Sure the community may be overly critical at times, but sometimes that's the price you pay for being around bright people who value intellect. I see it as something that makes me better. Additionally, it'd be hard to find a community with bigger hearts and a greater ability (resources and skills) to make things and make things happen.

No matter who you are, if you do good work you'll fit in with this community in my experience.

P.S. By the way, I do appreciate your thoughts and I think your heart is in the right place. I just think there are more effective ways to discuss the issue. Labeling under representation as hostility seems more likely to drive a wedge between sides than improve the situation.

How did any of us get into tech? It's more about exposure and accessibility than anything, not handouts. Let's focus on that.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the hacker scene so hostile to women and black people?

#55

Post by [deleted] »

jd0 wrote: post #38
gmays wrote: post #36

'Hostile' is quite a leap and makes more assumptions than are worth addressing. You claim hostility, but it sounds like you might mean underrepresentation? Regardless, it's for the same reasons that the NFL and NBA are 'hostile' to Asians, Indians, and any other underrepresented group: they're not. It's just a function of what people are culturally exposed to growing up and what we're conditioned to see. It's silly t…

Thanks for your response. In reference to your addressing the word "hostile" check this recent comment I made to try and clarify the use of that word: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6879195 That comment only addresses women though - but hostile was more-so a trigger word than what I actually meant. I'm trying to address societal disadvantages faced by certain groups - these are not consciously hostile but they…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Why is the hacker scene so hostile to women and black people?

#56

Post by actsasbuffoon »

I think your goal with this post was to foster discussion about bringing more women and minorities into software development, which is a cause that's near and dear to my heart. Unfortunately you used some rather inflammatory language in your post, which prevented people from being able to discuss the thing you really wanted to talk about.

I'm guessing you've figured this out already, but insulting people and implying that they're sexist and/or racist makes for a very poor icebreaker. I recommend waiting a few days and posting a gentler version of the question. This topic is important to the future of our community, and we shouldn't let our emotions get in the way of improving the world.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the hacker scene so hostile to women and black people?

#57

Post by jd0 »

andrewcooke wrote: post #51
jd0 wrote: post #33

This post was very briefly on the top of /ask but now it's gone from that page altogether... honestly that's fucked up! It seems like it was a moderator decision, older posts with less comments and upvotes remain, why was this post removed? please ask info@ycombinator.com

it has way more comments that votes, which triggers automatic downvoting. [and i see that you immediately assume - with no evidence or knowledge of how ranking here works - that it was excluded "actively and consciously" rather than through some automated process.... at what point do you start to question your own process of solving problems? maybe blaming everyone else is not always right?]

Whoops! I now realize that it was flagged by users not removed by mods. I honestly haven't used HN in years until yesterday so I forgot how it all works. Also I was drunk when I made this post. c:

Re: Ask HN: Why is the hacker scene so hostile to women and black people?

#58

Post by jd0 »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #52
jd0 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm addressing CS because it's relevant to me. It's a community that I participate in so I'm addressing this issue in my community. Honestly though, the gap between women and men in CS is far greater than other fields.

You're replying to a reply about blacks' presence in these fields, not women's.

Yes you're correct, I honestly don't know what the achievement gap is for other science fields - so I don't know if it's worse in CS for people of color.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the hacker scene so hostile to women and black people?

#60

Post by sanskritabelt »

thenerdfiles wrote: post #2

Because many African languages, like Zulu, lack many linguistic distinctions sufficient to produce abstract concepts regarding Time (Past/Present) and Rules (Obligation/Promise). So descendents of Africans and people who are closer in proximity to practical use of those languages are seen as lacking subtlety, lacking conceptual grace, less capable of exploratory thought and critical intellectual maneuvering — notwith…

Regarding languages lacking certain features therefore limiting the cognitive space of their speakers, everybody should remember the English has no future tense: http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/005471.h... and just personally as a native speaker I have to wonder what it is I'm missing.
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