Ask HN: Should I go to Sweden for work? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to Sweden for work?

#51

Post by mjn » Mon, Oct 21, 2013, 10:44 AM UTC

seivan wrote: post #39

vanderZwan wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your nativity makes you miss a few problems simply because they never cross your path. For example: > Language skills... nothing to say here. Every Swede can speak and write English. You won't have problems here. This is true insofar as that I've been studying Interaction Design in Sweden for one and a half years now (one half year to go) and I have not needed to learn Swedish. However, I've been informed tha…

You're partially right here. But for software engineering or general tech/science, English is sufficient. You don't need Swedish. We got a couple of English speakers at my current place of employment and there are no issues here. But yeah, regarding other types of job, without Swedish, you'll have it tough. My partner speaks fluent Mandarin and English and has a Bachelors degree with honours. Will probably have an in…

Copenhagen is a bit more English-friendly in employment from what I gather, even outside tech, so could be an option for people who want to stay in Scandinavia but have trouble finding an English-language job in Sweden. For example the entire Maersk corporation, the largest employer in Denmark, is English-only for corporate business and hiring, except a few jobs that interact with things like the Danish government, local catering, etc. My guess as to why is that Danish tends to be harder than Swedish for foreigners to learn to a level that Danes can understand, so companies don't expect them to.

Some couples straddle Copenhagen–Malmö (35 minutes by train from each other across the strait).

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to Sweden for work?

#52

Post by mjn » Mon, Oct 21, 2013, 10:51 AM UTC

msvan wrote: post #43

Stockholm is lovely but the housing market is a mess. Decades of idiotic policies have halted the construction of new apartments shot the prices through the roof. Just this week I was talking to someone who was renting out his one-room apartment for more than USD 1800/month. If you want to live centrally, prepare to pay for it.

Whether 1800 USD/month for a one-bd apartment is expensive might depend on where you're coming from. That's not out of line with the going rates in many other major cities (SF, NYC, London, Paris), and might even be cheaper, if that's for a nice & centrally located apartment. But it's about 25% more expensive than Copenhagen, and 3x Berlin.

One could also live in non-Stockholm parts of Sweden, like Göteborg or Malmö, both of which have significant tech industries and lower housing costs.

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to Sweden for work?

#53

Post by subsystem » Mon, Oct 21, 2013, 10:52 AM UTC

If you can find a rent controlled (or otherwise modestly priced) apartment in the city, otherwise I wouldn't bother. It's also not something you can easily offset by a higher salary.

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to Sweden for work?

#54

Post by jp1989 » Mon, Oct 21, 2013, 10:55 AM UTC

Self promotional, but anyone looking for Swedish Startup Jobs can check out our job board. Mostly dev positions http://swedishstartupspace.com/jobs/

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to Sweden for work?

#55

Post by davewasthere » Mon, Oct 21, 2013, 10:59 AM UTC

seivan wrote: post #9

Be ready to pay up for a place to stay in Stockholm, I'm native and I gotta stay in queue in order to get to rent. There is no free market for apartments - at least not for rentals. You can take your chance at the Swedish equivalent of Craigs List or get to know someone. I've given up and decided to buy. Taxes aren't as high as people complain about, unless you're a freelancer. Small businesses get screwed royally an…

Religious extremism in Sweden? And I thought it was one of the most secular countries in the world...

At least it's snow on your train tracks. Here in the UK, leaves, rain and yes, even sunshine can delay our trains... :-)

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to Sweden for work?

#56

Post by davewasthere » Mon, Oct 21, 2013, 11:02 AM UTC

pathy wrote: post #27

MortenK wrote: post #14

A couple of things: You have to be absolutely certain that they will supply living and work permit for both you and your family. Immigration laws are very strict in Scandinavia, so you'd obviously want to be certain there won't be any nasty surprises with getting your wife and children here. Living costs in Moscow and Stockholm is not that far from each other. A full-time position as a front-end developer usually won…

>Front-end contracting is typically full-time contracts on-location for between 6 and 12 months. It typically pays 100+ USD an hour, meaning a monthly income of 16K USD or so given a standard 40 hour workweek. A lot of those 16K will go away in taxes and social costs though. I am not sure what most freelancers use for estimates but somewhere between 50-75% should probably be deducted before getting a comparable numbe…

Ouchy! That's a sting. That's where the UK seems a bit friendlier. It's possible to take pretty much 80% of your daily rate home if you plan it well..

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to Sweden for work?

#57

Post by marvin » Mon, Oct 21, 2013, 11:13 AM UTC

jzet wrote: post #29

I did my masters degree in Stockholm and one thing I think is very important to know is that it is very difficult to find a job without speaking proper Swedish, so if you go to Sweden and at some point decide to change jobs, it might be difficult if you didn't learn Swedish yet. I was in a CS masters program with about 30 other international students and none of us even got a IT related side job (not even at the inte…

Good point - "ghetto" in Scandinavia usually means that if you are drunk and in general indisposed, you'll be a bit more perceptive to your surroundings than usual if you walk home alone after midnight.

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to Sweden for work?

#58

Post by bjourne » Mon, Oct 21, 2013, 11:24 AM UTC

cosmorocket wrote: post #4

frigg wrote: post #2

Hello, I'm not from Sweden but if you could post an approximation of the salary they offered maybe someone who lives there might better answer how you will manage. Good luck!

What the guy in charge for money said was something around $4-$5k per month before taxes which seems quite low to me.

I can confirm that that is a realistic average for a frontend guy. Keep in mind too that most larger companies will offer you a salary that is significantly below the median they offer Swedish applicants because they believe they have a leg up on you. You are in a worse negotiating position and they expect you to be used to work for a lower wage.

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to Sweden for work?

#59

Post by subsystem » Mon, Oct 21, 2013, 11:24 AM UTC

mjn wrote: post #52

msvan wrote: post #43

Stockholm is lovely but the housing market is a mess. Decades of idiotic policies have halted the construction of new apartments shot the prices through the roof. Just this week I was talking to someone who was renting out his one-room apartment for more than USD 1800/month. If you want to live centrally, prepare to pay for it.

Whether 1800 USD/month for a one-bd apartment is expensive might depend on where you're coming from. That's not out of line with the going rates in many other major cities (SF, NYC, London, Paris), and might even be cheaper, if that's for a nice & centrally located apartment. But it's about 25% more expensive than Copenhagen, and 3x Berlin. One could also live in non-Stockholm parts of Sweden, like Göteborg or Malmö,…

Sweden just isn't made for a high income, high spending scenario. For instance most of the benefits (unemployment, sickness, parental etc.) have a cap. Taxes have also become more progressive in recent years.

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to Sweden for work?

#60

Post by mjn » Mon, Oct 21, 2013, 11:28 AM UTC

Gojja wrote: post #32

seivan wrote: post #9

Be ready to pay up for a place to stay in Stockholm, I'm native and I gotta stay in queue in order to get to rent. There is no free market for apartments - at least not for rentals. You can take your chance at the Swedish equivalent of Craigs List or get to know someone. I've given up and decided to buy. Taxes aren't as high as people complain about, unless you're a freelancer. Small businesses get screwed royally an…

I am a native and agree with you, but the crimes isn't that bad as you describe. No problem to go home late at night if your in the city. If you live in the suburbs (the less clasy ones) I can imagen that the crime rate is higher. I like Stockholm a lot and think it´s a great oppertunity to come here.

I've found Scandinavians to be extremely paranoid about crime and (from my perspective, at least) massively over-estimating it, maybe because traditionally it was nearly zero.

Coming from the U.S., cities in the Nordic countries are extremely calm and low-crime, so low that you'd need a logarithmic axis to show their crime rates alongside those of major U.S. cities (L.A., Chicago, Atlanta, NYC, etc.). I don't feel at all unsafe walking around the media-hyped "bad" areas of central-ish Copenhagen alone at 3am, or using a laptop on the train/subway at any hour. The housing projects way out in the suburbs may be different, but if you don't live there, you have little reason to ever be there.