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Ask HN: Iran's 120h internet shutdown, phones back. How to stay resilient?

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Re: Ask HN: Iran's 120h internet shutdown, phones back. How to stay resilient?

#51

Couriers and USB flash drives can be pretty effective. They're high latency but can be very high bandwidth. Look at the El Paquete network in Cuba[0] as inspiration. Self-contained HTML/JavaScript SPAs can provide navigation and the likes of TiddlyWiki[1] can allow for collaboration. A network of couriers can move as fast as road traffic and distribute stuff pretty widely. Contents can be re-shared locally over ad-ho…

Do we need to come up with more internet protocols/services that don't require a negotiation process? So that it would work better with very high latency sneaker-net flash-drive networks? Especially for the already asynchronous ones like email? I could envision a user with a messenger/email-like client who "sends" (encrypted) messages that get put on a flash drive. This is carried around the neighborhood, etc, where others do the same. Eventually someone takes it to a machine with regular internet access, where the messages get delivered to their intended recipients. And then replies to these messages (coming hours, days, weeks later) also get put on a flash drive, and maybe hopefully get back to the original receivers. And if the internet-down situation has been resolved, the recipients will already have their messages, but if not, they'll get them when the flash drive arrives.

I suppose this isn't complete without mentioning RFC 1149 (IP Datagrams on Avian Carriers).

https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc1149

Re: Ask HN: Iran's 120h internet shutdown, phones back. How to stay resilient?

#52
post #6

Starlink and/or BGAN/satellite phones.

unless you already have the gear and a subscription, not sure how an Iranian citizen can get starlink set up: starlink doesn't ship there, so needs to be individually imported, plus will need to be paid for by a debit/credit card from a non-sanctioned country

Re: Ask HN: Iran's 120h internet shutdown, phones back. How to stay resilient?

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to think for a second to realize that HF means lower frequency than VHF, not high frequency in an absolute sense.

Back in ye olden days, HF was really high! What we'd consider today to be near useless due to limited bandwidth and insane antenna requirements were once the primary frequencies for communications.

I wondered if that was the case! 28 MHz must've seemed pretty high at the time. :)

Re: Ask HN: Iran's 120h internet shutdown, phones back. How to stay resilient?

#55
post #49
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has been reported in the press that Starlink subscription fee has been waived for Iran, so people with receivers can use it for free.

yah but not sure how someone in Iran can actually get the hardware shipped to them (I just tried Tehran as delivery, and starlink website said "no"), and also would need a bank or credit card from a non-sanctioned country to be able to actually pay for it

> I just tried Tehran as delivery, and starlink website said "no"

I hope you're not a list now.

Re: Ask HN: Iran's 120h internet shutdown, phones back. How to stay resilient?

#56
Yggdrasil (mesh network) would be the longer-term solution. It is fast, resilient, and pure IPv6. But you'll have to establish IP links between interested parties to peer over. Eventually some will be able to peer over the internet, and connect everyone else to the rest of the world.

Re: Ask HN: Iran's 120h internet shutdown, phones back. How to stay resilient?

#57
post #51

Couriers and USB flash drives can be pretty effective. They're high latency but can be very high bandwidth. Look at the El Paquete network in Cuba[0] as inspiration. Self-contained HTML/JavaScript SPAs can provide navigation and the likes of TiddlyWiki[1] can allow for collaboration. A network of couriers can move as fast as road traffic and distribute stuff pretty widely. Contents can be re-shared locally over ad-ho…

Do we need to come up with more internet protocols/services that don't require a negotiation process? So that it would work better with very high latency sneaker-net flash-drive networks? Especially for the already asynchronous ones like email? I could envision a user with a messenger/email-like client who "sends" (encrypted) messages that get put on a flash drive. This is carried around the neighborhood, etc, where…

In this case NNCP (Note-to-Node Copy)[0] would be useful. It fully supports sneakernet/floppynet distribution but also has an online mode that could be used by nodes with active Internet connections.

[0] http://www.nncpgo.org/index.html

Re: Ask HN: Iran's 120h internet shutdown, phones back. How to stay resilient?

#58
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve tried MeshCore as well and discovered zero nodes. At least what I’ve seen it looks like Meshtastic implemented the same routing fixes MeshCore has. I think the issue is more that getting a message many kilometres out using a couple of nodes sitting in non prime locations is just unreliable. The noise is too high. There’s also a limit on how many messages can be sent while using flood routing.

But did all the nodes and repeaters update to the version of meshtastic with routing? Meshcore started with routing out of the box. I don't think it's the noise that's too high, my original understanding of the meshtastic 2.0 protocol (from this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7v6UbC5blJU ) was that an edge device would receive priority. So the message might go the wrong direction, say. Or, worse, a meshtastic…

I would say there are significantly more nodes on the Meshtastic network with the latest routing than there are MeshCore nodes. A gap that will likely only increase over time.

In Melbourne, Australia I was able to pick up 450 nodes on Meshtastic while I got zero on MeshCore after weeks of searching.

Re: Ask HN: Iran's 120h internet shutdown, phones back. How to stay resilient?

#59
Doubt that one solution alone will be enough to counter info blackout in any country. You need a combination of old and new strategies.

Starlink (satellite, bypasses local infrastructure; currently jammed but partially works in some areas, free access offered): Obtain smuggled terminal (dish + router). Place with clear sky view. Power on. Download Starlink app (iOS/Android) or use web interface. Connect phone/PC to Starlink Wi-Fi. Follow app prompts to activate (no subscription needed in Iran now).

Meshtastic (LoRa mesh, long-range offline text): Buy compatible device (e.g., Heltec/RAK ESP32 LoRa board). Flash latest firmware via web flasher (meshtastic.org). Install Meshtastic app (Android/iOS). Connect via Bluetooth. Set region (e.g., EU433/US915 based on hardware). Create/join channel with shared key. Messages hop device-to-device.

Noghteha (Bluetooth mesh, Iran-specific, offline): Download Noghteha APK (Google Play or sideloading). Install on Android. Open app—no account needed. Enable Bluetooth. Messages auto-hop via nearby phones in mesh.

Briar (Bluetooth/Wi-Fi P2P, offline secure messaging): Download Briar APK (briarproject.org or F-Droid). Install on Android. Create account (nickname + password). Add contacts: meet in person and scan QR, or share link via other channel. Enable Bluetooth/Wi-Fi for sync when in range. Messages store & forward when devices meet.

Delta Chat (email-based, works if any outbound email possible): Download Delta Chat app (delta.chat). Use chatmail server for auto-account (no personal email needed). Or add existing email. Add contacts via QR/link. Send messages (E2EE). Relies on email transit; resilient to blocks if email partially works.

Carrier pigeons: (communications w/ nearby states).

Code Talkers: Use minority Iranian languages (e.g., Kurdish, Balochi, Azerbaijani) as codes for voice/radio comms, training speakers to encode military/civil strategies, similar to WWII code talkers—resilient if monitors lack fluency.

Sci-fi alien languages (e.g., Klingon, Na'vi) could work if users learn them for encrypted messaging apps or calls, but impractical due to learning curve and detection risks in which case create your own code talker language with an AI.

e.g., StratCode System Alphabet: Use 10 simple symbols for phonetics (easy to draw/speak):

⊙ (oh) - Open circle for vowels like O/A. | (ih) - Line for I/E. △ (ah) - Triangle for A/U. × (kh) - X for hard consonants K/G. ~ (sh) - Wave for S/Sh. □ (th) - Square for T/D. ○ (eh) - Empty circle for E. / (fh) - Slash for F/V. \ (rh) - Backslash for R/L.

(mh) - Plus for M/N/H.

Combine for words (e.g., ⊙| = "oi" sound).

Vocabulary for Strategies (map to animals/plants for disguise; speak/draw symbols):

Attack/Advance: Eagle (△×~) - △ for sky, × for strike, ~ for swift. Defend/Hold: Turtle (□\⊙) - □ for shell, \ for slow, ⊙ for safe. Retreat/Evacuate: Rabbit (/~) - / for jump, \ for run, ~ for quick. Scout/Observe: Owl (⊙○+) - ⊙ for eyes, ○ for night, + for wise. Supply/Logistics: Bee (~\□) - ~ for buzz/work, \ for hive, □ for store. Communicate/Signal: Wolf (×/+ ) - × for howl, / for pack, + for alert. Protest/Rally (civil): Flower (△⊙|) - △ for grow, ⊙ for bloom, | for unite. Hide/Conceal: Fox (~/) - ~ for sly, / for trick, \ for burrow. Alliance/Join: Tree (|+) - | for trunk, \ for roots, + for branches. Disrupt/Block: Storm (×~○) - × for thunder, ~ for wind, ○ for rain.

Encoding Example: "Attack then defend" = "Eagle Turtle" (△×~ □\⊙). Learn by associating symbols to sounds/objects; practice short phrases.

Re: Ask HN: Iran's 120h internet shutdown, phones back. How to stay resilient?

#60
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very silly that "high frequency" is among the lowest frequencies, and that we wound up with Very, Ultra, Super, Extremely, and Tremendously High Frequencies!

Reminds me of High Speed USB.

Long live Fast Ethernet
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