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Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

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Re: Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

#51

Post by mixmastamyk »

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #31

Yeah ageism is a huge issue, even in early 30s, working as a regular programmer is met with suspicion and looked down upon. Not only that, young engineers will be build whatever without questioning the value, business people prefer this. They dont want an engineer raising product questions also, it is true that technology moves quickly, startups dont need experts in tech thats no longer bleeding edge. large old schoo…

Feels a bit cynical. Raising questions is incredibly valuable for a company as long as it is done in a positive manner. It’s what they tell us is the main benefit to DEI, and you can tell whether they are serious if they include older folks in their program or not.

Re: Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

#52

Post by softwaredoug »

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #50
softwaredoug wrote: post #44

I experience it differently. As an IC that’s relatively respected it my field, I think my seniority seems like a threat to some leaders. Because my word carries weight and I tend to be less obsequious with little to lose in these interactions. I have less of a problem to saying “the emperor has no clothes”. Younger ICs don’t have this luxury. They go along despite their reservations and often feel they don’t know bet…

yeah young business people dont want older engineers that can call them out around. they want other young clueless engineers to just build

Possibly, but I’ve noticed this is independent of age.

Re: Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

#53

Post by hackthemack »

I started working in IT in the 90s and I would say "yes" but I realize my observations do not carry scientific rigor. It would require knowing the thoughts and practices of millions of people. Such is the curse of social science.

I do not think most people think of themselves as being "ageist", but it manifests in their actions. Usually a department will be filled with a group of young people, and in the interview process, someone will say, "I do not think this person would be a good culture fit". But they do not realize that they just do not want an old person because they seem different then what is already in the team.

I also have a hunch, that "leet code tests", in the hiring process has a hidden agenda of weeding out "older people". Those kind of tests are usually on knowledge one might have learned in a college course and subsequently forgot about. Or, if you are juggling a family, you may not have time to go do all day knowledge crunch study to get the algorithms into your head.

Companies do not want to come right out and say "we do not want to hire old people", but they selfishly want the most value for their buck. They want to drive down wages and extract value. What is more valuable to a company? A middle aged programmer who has to go home at 5pm to help take care of the kids? Or do they get more value out of a young person just out of college who has something to prove?

I have seen perfectly reasonable people pass over hiring older people because they do not want to hire someone who might know more than they do, or someone who might push back on decisions. They want someone young who will just do what they say.

As a society, I do not think we address such issues well.

Re: Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

#54

Post by leonagano »

georgeecollins wrote: post #20

Just wondering, was the issue not enough job hunters using the site or was the issue that not enough companies wanted to post listings. If the latter, I would guess that lots of people in tech recognize the problem, but not many companies (sincerely) want to do anything about it for all the reasons people here will give: worries about salary expectations, worries about availability to work long hours, less experience…

It was the latter. Companies didn't want to pay for listings

Re: Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

#55

Post by softwaredoug »

softwaredoug wrote: post #44

I experience it differently. As an IC that’s relatively respected it my field, I think my seniority seems like a threat to some leaders. Because my word carries weight and I tend to be less obsequious with little to lose in these interactions. I have less of a problem to saying “the emperor has no clothes”. Younger ICs don’t have this luxury. They go along despite their reservations and often feel they don’t know bet…

To add to this I think it’s important for seniors to have a lot of humility, be open to new ideas, and not be one of these leaders!

Have a lot of skepticism towards our ego and question whether we’re acting on status or actually what’s best.

Re: Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

#56

Post by abeppu »

carlosjobim wrote: post #39
adamredwoods wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recently, I've had a co-worker be "okay" with alerts in the middle of the night. I refused because I have to drive my child to school at 7.30am.

If your kids school is more important than your job is, that only means your job is extremely unimportant. Like my job. Your kid is better off not going to school for a day, or arriving late. They're not doing anything important in school. Depending on company, maybe they need to hire people to do important things and have responsibility for important things. Somebody who would prioritize things like driving their ki…

I think one seriously broken thing is that every company seems convinced their work is important, and scales their sense of how important work items are relative to the company as a whole. Orgs and teams do the same.

You can be on a team that runs a service that's a small part of the overall company product offering, which may be a convenience rather than mission-critical to its clients, who themselves may be doing something BS, and that team may still want you to wake up at 3AM when something alerts. Making a blanket statement that just because a job wants you to wake up at 3AM means it must be important (nevermind more important than family responsibility) places way too much trust in the judgement of employers.

Re: Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

#57

Post by ldjkfkdsjnv »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #51
ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #31

Yeah ageism is a huge issue, even in early 30s, working as a regular programmer is met with suspicion and looked down upon. Not only that, young engineers will be build whatever without questioning the value, business people prefer this. They dont want an engineer raising product questions also, it is true that technology moves quickly, startups dont need experts in tech thats no longer bleeding edge. large old schoo…

Feels a bit cynical. Raising questions is incredibly valuable for a company as long as it is done in a positive manner. It’s what they tell us is the main benefit to DEI, and you can tell whether they are serious if they include older folks in their program or not.

its valuable for the company, not for the line managers/product managers

Re: Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

#59

Post by awb »

IMO, it depends. I’ve worked with hundreds of startups over the last 20 years. The most significant trend I’ve seen is cultural cohesion. Some startups have a young, energetic culture. Some have an experienced, veteran culture. Some have a quirky, trendy culture.

But overall many companies seem to value and attract more of the same culture they already have in place. So to a degree, I’d say yes ageism exists in certain companies that don’t value experience as highly as other qualities.

Re: Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

#60

Post by chucksmash »

deadbabe wrote: post #34

There is all kinds of ‘isms in tech. Pretty much the only people who don’t have to worry are young straight white males. I suspect before ageism disappears it will first swing the other way where older tech workers snub young people entering the industry writing them off as vibecoders who don’t know anything and are easily replaced with an AI.

You just did an ism...
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