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Ask HN: My manager is bad. Should I care?

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Re: Ask HN: My manager is bad. Should I care?

#51

Post by noufalibrahim »

I've been in a situation where I had a manager who was a nice guy. Everyone took advantage of him and none of the people under him really grew unless they changed teams. My career stagnated for a long time there and it significantly sapped my confidence and professionalism. I jumped out prematurely and made some bad career moves after that.

My general advice is to follow your gut. If you feel like your manager is actually hurting your long term career prospects, then you should switch teams or company. If not, and it's just a passing feeling, you can stay. A decent check for the former is to see how much growth you've had under this manager and then take a call.

Re: Ask HN: My manager is bad. Should I care?

#52

Post by itsoktocry »

>I am recognized as high performing and a good team builder

Is this not something that a good team builder would be able to fix, at least in theory? Team building is easy when everyone agrees and gets along; solving this issue would solidify your reputation (within and without).

Re: Ask HN: My manager is bad. Should I care?

#53

Post by dogman144 »

I’ve been there. If the goal is to ensure your career isn’t derailed vs like ensuring good corporate optimization bc you care about that (you shouldn’t, IMO, likely a losing battle impacted by levers you’ll never see), it will matter probably in the following areas:

- wherever your manager exerts soft responsibility, you can likely take over safely. Might need a lot of peer leadership and related capital with peers

- wherever your manager has those firm only-manager responsibilities, you are at their whim unfortunately. This can include layoff decisions, how much you manager will be involved in layoff decisions about their own teams, kill/green light projects, etc. basically all those invisible levers your manager might have access to but you don’t. Not much to do here but risk manage your personal career management accordingly.

Re: Ask HN: My manager is bad. Should I care?

#54

Post by Joel_Mckay »

I suspect like most folks the poster probably is frustrated by disingenuous civility rather than "nice" behavior...

Asserting ones personal priorities supersede the defined goals is also a classic mistake, as productivity means different things to different people.

One can have high output, but still be a liability for company projects that require cooperation with other disciplines including business operations.

Yes even geniuses get fired for poor team conduct, and it is usually always a surprise to their ego.

I am not saying you aren't necessarily on a boondoggle project, but rather your role is likely poorly defined in the team. A common issue for smaller firms, especially relevant when layoffs are in the pipeline. i.e. better to bail than be declared redundant or a problem.

Have a great day, and lets try to be less presumptuous about other peoples motives Professor X. =3

Re: Ask HN: My manager is bad. Should I care?

#55

Post by frank_nitti »

pknomad wrote: post #9

> The manager, however, fails to include me or the team, and this is reflected in declining team satisfaction ratings. To me it feels like there needs to be more information before we can come to a judgement (excluding bias aside). I don't feel like "failing to include" people is necessarily an indication that a manager is bad... rather it feels like his communication style clashes with your preference. There are ple…

The most egregious examples of this I’ve experienced are in large corporate environments, where managers are often less technical than their leads. Often only managers/directors are invited to calls with thought leaders, portfolio architects, who are also very technical.

This led to situations where a lead is asked in a quick IM or call “are we doing X in our system?” without any context or materials provided to the lead, which often contain crucially important info that the manager feels is just noise (especially if they consider themselves very technical from engineering roles in a previous era).

Just my two cents there; in my case I just learned to roll with it, after some time of striving to work “around” management to find info they never passed down, which resulted in poorer performance evaluations than simply following oft-misguided orders

Re: Ask HN: My manager is bad. Should I care?

#56

Post by itsoktocry »

scarab92 wrote: post #39
bsuvc wrote: post #10

> nice I'm reminded of a book I read once called "No More Mr Nice Guy" where it explains that "nice guys" are actually kind of jerks because they behave certain ways to try to manipulate people and they expect reciprocation. They live by a sort of unspoken code that they believe exists but which other people may or may not be aware of. When a "nice guy" doesn't get his way, he can become bitter and resentful. (I am u…

There’s a strange hostility in your comment that doesn’t seem to make sense. Nice guys can become resentful when their kindness isn’t reciprocated in environments where reciprocity is a reasonable expectation, but that I don’t see how that makes them jerks nor does it make being nice a red flag. Just know that if someone is nice to you that they are likely to expect to be treated how they treat you and either meet th…

>There’s a strange hostility in your comment that doesn’t seem to make sense.

It doesn't. Sure, there's such things as being "phony nice". But unsociable people tend to over-analyze others and do a ton of projection. The idea that "nice guys" are sociopaths trying to game you is, well, way too cynical for me and my life experience. Some people are just nice.

Re: Ask HN: My manager is bad. Should I care?

#57

Post by tredigi »

bsuvc wrote: post #49
tredigi wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm reminded of a book I read once called "No More Mr Nice Guy" where it explains that "nice guys" are actually kind of jerks because they behave certain ways to try to manipulate people and they expect reciprocation. That's just red pill BS right there. Somebody is nice, I'm jealous, so he must be incompetent+manipulative, how else can I justify to myself that I want to see him as bad and myself as good? So let's…

Typical nice guy response. I never said any of those things, that it was better to be a jerk or toxic, but you assume that I did.

The irony of this response is that I didn't actually claim that you said any of those things. I commented on the book's content and the summary you gave.

Thia reaction of yours is telling though. As well as how you finished your original message:

> niceness has become a huge red flag to me ever since reading that book. I much prefer someone who is good (in competence and/or in behavior) than someone who is nice.

"Niceness" as a red flag? How does that not confirm what I wrote and put you in the camp of those agreeing with the book's message?

Re: Ask HN: My manager is bad. Should I care?

#58

Post by ryandrake »

frank_nitti wrote: post #55
pknomad wrote: post #9

> The manager, however, fails to include me or the team, and this is reflected in declining team satisfaction ratings. To me it feels like there needs to be more information before we can come to a judgement (excluding bias aside). I don't feel like "failing to include" people is necessarily an indication that a manager is bad... rather it feels like his communication style clashes with your preference. There are ple…

The most egregious examples of this I’ve experienced are in large corporate environments, where managers are often less technical than their leads. Often only managers/directors are invited to calls with thought leaders, portfolio architects, who are also very technical. This led to situations where a lead is asked in a quick IM or call “are we doing X in our system?” without any context or materials provided to the…

> This led to situations where a lead is asked in a quick IM or call “are we doing X in our system?”

If you're "representing the team" in a technical call, you should either 1. be prepared to yourself go as deep technically as the other participants, or 2. bring someone deeply technical along to provide that expertise. These "quick side chats" are like trying to pass answer notes back and forth during an exam. Too late bro, you should have studied.

Re: Ask HN: My manager is bad. Should I care?

#59

Post by stvltvs »

scarab92 wrote: post #39
bsuvc wrote: post #10

> nice I'm reminded of a book I read once called "No More Mr Nice Guy" where it explains that "nice guys" are actually kind of jerks because they behave certain ways to try to manipulate people and they expect reciprocation. They live by a sort of unspoken code that they believe exists but which other people may or may not be aware of. When a "nice guy" doesn't get his way, he can become bitter and resentful. (I am u…

There’s a strange hostility in your comment that doesn’t seem to make sense. Nice guys can become resentful when their kindness isn’t reciprocated in environments where reciprocity is a reasonable expectation, but that I don’t see how that makes them jerks nor does it make being nice a red flag. Just know that if someone is nice to you that they are likely to expect to be treated how they treat you and either meet th…

I first heard the term Nice Guy from the dating world to describe guys who expect women to have sex with them, date them, etc. if they treat the women nicely. Like others have said, quid pro quo obligation. I haven't noticed this in the workplace, but maybe I wasn't paying attention.

Re: Ask HN: My manager is bad. Should I care?

#60

Post by lylejantzi3rd »

bsuvc wrote: post #49
tredigi wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm reminded of a book I read once called "No More Mr Nice Guy" where it explains that "nice guys" are actually kind of jerks because they behave certain ways to try to manipulate people and they expect reciprocation. That's just red pill BS right there. Somebody is nice, I'm jealous, so he must be incompetent+manipulative, how else can I justify to myself that I want to see him as bad and myself as good? So let's…

Typical nice guy response. I never said any of those things, that it was better to be a jerk or toxic, but you assume that I did.

> Say nice guys suck

> Somebody disagrees!

> "Typical nice guy response".

Don't do this. This pattern is easy to spot and you instantly lose all credibility.

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