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Ask HN: Burnout because of ChatGPT?

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Re: Ask HN: Burnout because of ChatGPT?

#51

Post by dragonwriter »

coldtea wrote: post #44
dragonwriter wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then there will be a decision point: either the senior-level people who thought they were safe get replaced by a more-advanced model, or they don't and there's a future society-level shortage because the pipeline to produce more senior-level people has been shut down (like the OP is doing). Or, for every junior that isn't hired by a business that can't expand its portfolio to exploit greater productivity or can’t f…

> Or, for every junior that isn't hired by a business that can't expand its portfolio to exploit greater productivity or can’t figure out how to effectively use LLMs across the experience spectrum, two will be hired in shops that can do those things And everybody also gets a pony! Win-win-win situation! Previous "software dev productivity increases" happened as computing saturation itself increased from a hanful of m…

> LLM are not mere increased productivity or the computer operator, but automation of productivity so that it can happen without an operator (or with much fewer).

Enabling the same production with fewer workers (or, equivalently, greater production with the same number of workers) is the definition of a productivity increase, not something that constitutes a difference in kind from a normal productivity increase.

> Moreover, all this "increased productivity" still left wage stagnant for 40 years

Not in computing it didn't. Same job category pay rose in real terms over almost any window you choose in the last 50 years, and in most cases the distribution of jobs also moved over time from lower-paid to higher-paid categories within computing.

Also, even general real wages didn't really stagnate for 40 years, average (mean) wages dropped slowly for 20 — mid-70s to mid-90s, and mostly have slowly climbed since, crossing over about 30-ish years after the past peak, but the same effect isn't seen in median wages (though that also was low in the early 1980s and most of the 1990s, before mostly rising strongly) or median personal income (which, despite short drops around recessions, has been rising consistently strongly since the 1981 trough.)

Re: Ask HN: Burnout because of ChatGPT?

#52

Post by footy »

> Calling myself a prompt-engineer sounds weird.

I'll be honest, someone calling themself this sounds to me like someone with no self respect.

> The only difference is that I can start trusting a human to improve, but I cannot expect ChatGPT to do so. Not that it is incapable, but because it is restricted by OpenAI.

Sounds like a good reason to hire juniors.

Re: Ask HN: Burnout because of ChatGPT?

#53

Post by interstice »

fleeno wrote: post #30

Can you elaborate on how you're actually using ChatGPT? I'm a developer and I haven't felt any need to use ChatGPT constantly. What tasks are you delegating to ChatGPT that were previously done by humans? Most of my input from others is regarding current information specific to the task at hand. I don't see how ChatGPT would have any idea what I'm talking about. Do you have some specific examples you could share?

After putting some thought into this I think it has to do with the kind of developer you are. In my case I'm usually across 10-20 ecommerce websites doing various semi-unique jobs with relatively simple code.

Largely I use CGPT for work that's boilerplate/LOC heavy but architecture light, things like writing first drafts of React hooks and the like. It's quite good with constraints like use typescript or use X function to do Y.

I usually give it about two goes if it goes in the wrong direction on the first try. If it seems to not conceptually understand what I'm asking I generally just write it directly rather than tinkering with prompts for 20 minutes.

I also have a couple of longer system prompts saved for converting Vue components to React using the house style and things like that using the playground.

Re: Ask HN: Burnout because of ChatGPT?

#54

Post by purplecats »

obblekk wrote: post #28

I've experienced a very similar feeling. To me it feels exactly like finding wikipedia in 2005, or getting an iphone + wikipanion in 2008. The frontiers of my mind have been unleashed. A real bicycle for the mind. Here are some tactics I use to "turn off gpt": 1. It'll be there tomorrow. The great thing about their threaded model is you can easily find the convo and continue it tomorrow. Remind yourself of that consc…

> 2. You're not behind, you're ahead. 80% of Americans haven't tried chatgpt. 95% of the world maybe.

idk if anyone realistically compares themselves to the abstract nebulous "everyone". its likely moreso in regards to their socioeconomic band

Re: Ask HN: Burnout because of ChatGPT?

#55

Post by coldtea »

dragonwriter wrote: post #51
coldtea wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or, for every junior that isn't hired by a business that can't expand its portfolio to exploit greater productivity or can’t figure out how to effectively use LLMs across the experience spectrum, two will be hired in shops that can do those things And everybody also gets a pony! Win-win-win situation! Previous "software dev productivity increases" happened as computing saturation itself increased from a hanful of m…

> LLM are not mere increased productivity or the computer operator, but automation of productivity so that it can happen without an operator (or with much fewer). Enabling the same production with fewer workers (or, equivalently, greater production with the same number of workers) is the definition of a productivity increase, not something that constitutes a difference in kind from a normal productivity increase. > M…

>Enabling the same production with fewer workers (or, equivalently, greater production with the same number of workers) is the definition of a productivity increase, not something that constitutes a difference in kind from a normal productivity increase.

Of course. But "greater production with the same number of workers" vs "the same production with fewer workers" is already a difference in quantity (of both production, and, the thing pertinent to the discussion, of workers).

And there's also "greater production with fewer workers" - where you get to have your employer pie (fewer workers) and eat it too (still get greater production).

Re: Ask HN: Burnout because of ChatGPT?

#56

Post by [deleted] »

fleeno wrote: post #30

Can you elaborate on how you're actually using ChatGPT? I'm a developer and I haven't felt any need to use ChatGPT constantly. What tasks are you delegating to ChatGPT that were previously done by humans? Most of my input from others is regarding current information specific to the task at hand. I don't see how ChatGPT would have any idea what I'm talking about. Do you have some specific examples you could share?

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Burnout because of ChatGPT?

#57

Post by JohnFen »

bloppe wrote: post #50
JohnFen wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The threat of these models isn't that they'll go all Skynet and kill everyone, it's that they'll cause a lot of economic devastation to people who make a living Yes. This is pretty much my only concern about these models, and I'm powerfully concerned about this. It's hard to see how this will lead to a good place. It seems more likely that this will lead to increased poverty and multiple socioeconomic crises. I am…

> I am even more concerned that very few people are talking about this. People have been talking about the threat of automation since the very beginning of the industrial revolution. It just never plays out nearly that badly, and short-term disruptions are always outweighed by long-term efficiency gains within ~5 years or so; even those who experience the worst career disruption tend to end up better off within that…

> even those who experience the worst career disruption tend to end up better off within that time frame.

That hasn't been my observation at all. In the US, there are large swaths of the nation that still haven't recovered from the last similar event.

To add additional worry, the last time, everyone was told that the way out was to "upskill" into knowledge and service industries. Which a lot of people did, and those people were fine. But what are people to do this time? "Upskilling" back to physical jobs can only absorb so many workers, particularly since there aren't as many such jobs as there used to be.

This is all why I'm so concerned. I don't think history gives us any real reason to be optimistic here. In the very long term -- a couple of generations, say -- perhaps. But in the meantime? Even ignoring the ethics of some people deciding that others are expendable, the people being kicked to the curb will still have to find a way to eat, keep a roof over their head, etc.

If even 10-20% of the population can't do that, we're in big trouble.

All that said, nothing would make me happier than for you to be right and me to be wrong.

Re: Ask HN: Burnout because of ChatGPT?

#58

Post by the_only_law »

StevePerkins wrote: post #39
cheschire wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can witness this happening in the trades right now. A whole generation of people were told to goto college and to avoid the trades, and now here we are in possibly the most significant manpower drought the trades have ever experienced. And this has a ripple effect as the older generations retire out, and take their hard won experiences with them with nobody to pass their knowledge onto. Can't tell a carpenter to…

And yet the trades still have uneven access (or none at all) to health coverage, retirement planning options, etc. As an American parent of young children, I keep being told that college is a scam and I should steer my kids toward the trades. 90+% of the time, I am being told this by a white-collar worker who went to college themselves, and is just bloviating. When we reach a real crisis point, severe enough to actua…

> I am being told this by a white-collar worker who went to college themselves, and is just bloviating.

Exactly. When I talk to plumbers, electricians, etc. many of them express the desire to leave because the hours and environments are hellish. Meanwhile some full of themselves tech bro is babbling on about how everyone (not them of course) should go into the trades. Or they pull some vague anecdote out of their ass about how someone they know makes a gazllion dollars in the trades after 20 years and starting their own business, which is about as valid as telling someone to go into software development because they can become a billionaire, and throwing out some anecdote about a startup founder they know who got aquired.

Re: Ask HN: Burnout because of ChatGPT?

#60

Post by stevage »

fleeno wrote: post #30

Can you elaborate on how you're actually using ChatGPT? I'm a developer and I haven't felt any need to use ChatGPT constantly. What tasks are you delegating to ChatGPT that were previously done by humans? Most of my input from others is regarding current information specific to the task at hand. I don't see how ChatGPT would have any idea what I'm talking about. Do you have some specific examples you could share?

My main use is TypeScript, which I am using for the first time and struggling with a bit. I'm fine with straightforward type definitions but I often hit complicated situationszi don't know how to solve. Googling doesn't really help because U don't know the abstract terms for what I want to do.

Instead I paste the JavaScript and tell ChatGPT to add type definitions. Mostly it gets it right. If it doesn't, it gets me closer.

I don't use it for JS in general because I'm particular about how I write stuff. Though occasionally I'll lean on Copilot to fill out a utility function.

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