Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Would more people take public transportation if it had business class?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–58 of 58 posts

Re: Ask HN: Would more people take public transportation if it had business class?

#51

Post by politelemon »

warning26 wrote: post #11
dagmx wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add to your list, I think cities need better options for last mile transport. A big issue with public transit is that it gets you to the ballpark of where you want to go but your commute from there might still be lengthy enough that you need to call an Uber anyway. A lot of cities tend to have really great main trunk transit, but things get really sparse coming off of the trunks. Having better options for spreadin…

The “last mile” problem you mention isn’t really a transit problem, it’s an urban design problem. In a properly designed area, anywhere you’d likely want to go would be walkable from a transit stop. This is often non-obvious to people who grew up in car-centric areas, where everything is necessarily spaced exceedingly far apart to make room for parking.

You just made me appreciate London city's design, I usually get to where I need and then walk from 1 to 20 minutes. I appreciate the chance to walk as it's often nice and leafy. I will stop taking it for granted.

Re: Ask HN: Would more people take public transportation if it had business class?

#52

Post by Justsignedup »

Mordisquitos wrote: post #7

If by "public transportation" we restrict ourselves to short-range metropolitan services, as used for commuting, all else being equal then the answer is no. The reason for this "no" depends on whether we're talking about an area where public transport is highly developed (e.g. most urban areas of Western Europe and Japan) or areas in which it is underfunded and underdeveloped and is mostly seen as transport for poor…

I think nyc used to be an outlook of the subway being for everyone but now its

Busses for the poor

Subway for the poor

Uber for everyone else. Maybe express busses.

The reality is that the subway system is not getting more reliable to a point where my daughter has a harder time getting to school than I did just due to train reroutes and delays daily.

In the US the subway is not seen as an ideal and reliable transportation, even with new York having the best one in the US.

I visited London 10nyears ago and then went back to new york. Was so disappointed the moment I stepped onto the train platform.

Re: Ask HN: Would more people take public transportation if it had business class?

#53

Post by dagmx »

eesmith wrote: post #50
dagmx wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add to your list, I think cities need better options for last mile transport. A big issue with public transit is that it gets you to the ballpark of where you want to go but your commute from there might still be lengthy enough that you need to call an Uber anyway. A lot of cities tend to have really great main trunk transit, but things get really sparse coming off of the trunks. Having better options for spreadin…

> I think cities need better options for last mile transport. I think the point is that developed cities don't need that, because there are very few places which require that much walking. I used Google Maps to find routes around Copenhagen. Very few of them required more than 10 minutes total walking. Even fewer required that much walking once I switched to Monday commute time rather than Sunday evening. For underde…

What would a developed city be though?

I’ve lived in San Francisco and Vancouver, stayed in Seattle and LA. They’re all difficult for last mile (though Vancouver is by far the best.) they’re all quite developed though.

I think it’s more about density. It’s easy to get around in New York, and London is probably my high bar.

Re: Ask HN: Would more people take public transportation if it had business class?

#54

Post by eesmith »

dagmx wrote: post #53
eesmith wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think cities need better options for last mile transport. I think the point is that developed cities don't need that, because there are very few places which require that much walking. I used Google Maps to find routes around Copenhagen. Very few of them required more than 10 minutes total walking. Even fewer required that much walking once I switched to Monday commute time rather than Sunday evening. For underde…

What would a developed city be though? I’ve lived in San Francisco and Vancouver, stayed in Seattle and LA. They’re all difficult for last mile (though Vancouver is by far the best.) they’re all quite developed though. I think it’s more about density. It’s easy to get around in New York, and London is probably my high bar.

With Google Maps, I'm having a hard time finding a place in San Francisco which requires a 1 mile walk between the last transit stop and home.

The limit seems to be about 1/2 mile, or about a 10 minute walk.

Or, about the 6 blocks I mentioned in my earlier anecdote, where Dutch people easily walk while Americans hail a ride.

Re: Ask HN: Would more people take public transportation if it had business class?

#55

Post by Mordisquitos »

IceSentry wrote: post #36
mrkeen wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the case of developed public transportation the answer is no, because simply adding first class would decrease capacity. But capacity is a problem of the roads, not the busses themselves. You don't need to squeeze more people into the same amount of bus space, you need to get more 1-person-in-SUVs off the road, so more busses will fit on the road.

Maybe I'm just biased, but I assumed they were talking about trains and metros which aren't affected by traffic.

Yes, you are right: I was mostly thinking of trains and metro systems. In any case though, the argument still applies to buses. Adding a new "first class" without increasing the bus fleet would decrease passenger capacity — and if the bus fleet were to be extended, then introducing a first class would be redundant anyway given that the greater passenger capacity would be enough to increase passenger numbers by itself.

Re: Ask HN: Would more people take public transportation if it had business class?

#56

Post by Shawnj2 »

willio58 wrote: post #18

I would take public transportation if it meant not having to take buses only. Without trams or metros within cities or fast trains between cities, there’s really no benefit to me using those services over my car (unfortunately) Buses are cheap for cities so they’re common, but I’ll just say it, they suck. Without dedicated bud lanes they get stuck in traffic, they’re slow, etc.

Increased bus lanes would also be a viable option. The problem with public transit in most of the US is that busses get stuck in the same traffic as cars do but have less stops, so people will drive as it is the fastest possible transportation option. Bus lanes solve this problem for the cost of a can of paint

Re: Ask HN: Would more people take public transportation if it had business class?

#57

Post by angmarsbane »

atoav wrote: post #12
amichail wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't adding more expensive classes provide funding to increase capacity?

Public transport shouldn't be treated as a simple commodity. Having good public transport increases the land value, decreases maintenance costs for roads, increases revenues for local shops, decreases polution and noise and the follow up health care costs and so on. So a public transport service can be year after year in the red, while hollistically generating a ton of value for everybody in the city. In my eyes the…

Public transit is like Costco's rotisserie chicken. Costco takes a loss on the chicken because it gets people in the door spending on higher margin products. Local governments should take a loss on public transit because it enriches the economy around it by connecting workers with employers, and shoppers of all ages and levels of mobility/independence with business.

Re: Ask HN: Would more people take public transportation if it had business class?

#58

Post by calyth2018 »

The MTR in HK heading to Lo Wu / Lok Ma Chau has a first class section: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Rail_line

It doesn't increase public transportation use.

People in North America don't take public transit because: - it doesn't take them to where they need to go; - it doesn't take them to their destination timely relative to a car; and/or - it doesn't have frequent enough service to not get bored to death, baked into heat stroke, or frozen to death in -30C weather, on a Saturday early evening

"Business class" is just a lip stick on a pig.

Post reply on HN