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Ask HN: How much of inflation is caused by supply rather than demand issues?

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Re: Ask HN: How much of inflation is caused by supply rather than demand issues?

#51

The short answer is we don't know for certain. The long answer is that today's inflation doesn't seem to be monetary in cause, because nearly every country is experiencing inflation simultaneously. If the Fed had printed too much money and that was why the US was inflated, that dynamic shouldn't really affect, say, Germany, or Brazil. (Caveats abound, of course). Despite that, we're seeing nearly every major country…

> The long answer is that today's inflation doesn't seem to be monetary in cause, because nearly every country is experiencing inflation simultaneously. Every country printed money during Covid.

While this is true, the size of direct fiscal in the US i.e. stimmie checks was enormous. I think the original poster is correct, I encourage anybody in this thread to look into what happened with used cars. At times that accounted for as much as 1.5% of the month on month inflation figures.

A globalised supply chain was disrupted by covid and that exposed some pretty gnarly non-linearities in how pricing happens. Combined with an explosion in shipping prices that actually pre-cluded low inflation areas from exporting their disinflation to high inflation e.g. I've linked elsewhere charts on shipping costs. Have a look at a USDJPY chart and wonder why the US wasn't loading up on cheap Japanese goods..

Re: Ask HN: How much of inflation is caused by supply rather than demand issues?

#52
I have long doubted that policy has much to do with inflation. Having lived through sever inflation, in my personal experience inflation is all about inflationary expectations. It was all about trying to personally gain advantage by getting ahead of everyone else.

On the other hand I don't know squat about monetary policy, so I'm probably confused.

Re: Ask HN: How much of inflation is caused by supply rather than demand issues?

#53
Powell's been clear that the purpose of the rate hikes is to destroy demand until it matches what the economy can currently supply – this is practically a direct quote from his last press conference.

Supply and demand are always interchangeable when it comes to prices. We might compare supply (real GDP) to trend, and find it's been low, and conclude there's a supply and not a demand problem.[1] But the Fed is a bank and can't do much about supply.

Another question is whether inflation is actually high. There was a sharp change in the CPI last June.[2] Measuring from February 2022 still gives 6.0% but measuring from June gives 3.5%/year. There's also the question of inflation stability (2nd derivative of prices), and things have been pretty smooth since June.

So should the Fed crash the economy to try to bring stable 3.5% inflation down to 2%? Probably not. But the bigger question is: What can we do to increase supply?

[1] 1.7%/year 2022Q4/2019Q4 versus 2.6%/year 2019Q4/2016Q4 or 4.7%/year 1999Q4/1996Q4 etc.

[2] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CPIAUCSL

Re: Ask HN: How much of inflation is caused by supply rather than demand issues?

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would also add there may be an speculative factor as well, perhaps exacerbated by the pandemic. Some price hikes on products and services just don't seem to have any economic rationale behind them. And not all of them are quite obvious because you may get a full product or service with a reasonable price increase that follows inflation but of lot less value. Take for example hospitality (hotels and restaurants) and…

I know it's upsetting to a lot of people and they don't like it, but if you can charge a higher price and still sell it, it is economically rational to charge that. PS. Don't roast me, I'm not defending the practice, just the definition of economic rationality.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: How much of inflation is caused by supply rather than demand issues?

#55
At first it was almost entirely a supply and goods phenomena, but since mid-2022 it has shifted to services and demand.

SF Fed breaks out the PCE index by supply and demand:

https://www.frbsf.org/economic-research/indicators-data/supp...

Re: Ask HN: How much of inflation is caused by supply rather than demand issues?

#56
post #53

Powell's been clear that the purpose of the rate hikes is to destroy demand until it matches what the economy can currently supply – this is practically a direct quote from his last press conference. Supply and demand are always interchangeable when it comes to prices. We might compare supply (real GDP) to trend, and find it's been low, and conclude there's a supply and not a demand problem.[1] But the Fed is a bank…

Agreed, nice to see someone talking about recent inflation figures. I think the real issue remains the labour market, it's not clear if companies are labour hoarding still or we are somehow amidst a massive shortage. Anything you do to try to increase supply is counter-productive if you don't have workers to do it..

Re: Ask HN: How much of inflation is caused by supply rather than demand issues?

#57

Full disclosure: My understanding of economics is heavily influenced from what's called the Austrian School. On that understanding, we have two main factors that are contributing to the rise in prices. Only one of them is, properly speaking, inflation. Putting the subject of inflation aside for the moment, the first cause is the destruction of capital. Capital destruction, which broadly speaking includes our ability…

Can you elaborate on capital destruction? Who is destroying capital and why?

Thank you. I don't think I was being careful in my phrasing. By capital, I'm referring to the actual machinery and so forth used for production. Also, I expanded on that idea (as I noted) by including transportation, considering transportation to be, broadly speaking, involved with production and contributing to its cost.

But, as your question points out, I'm not really talking about destruction so much as I am about capital lying fallow for an extended period, and the chain of production—which endeavors to work as a well-oiled machine—being disrupted. My central point is that our ability to produce was greatly curtailed, resulting in less goods and services available.

Finally, I'm not quite sure what you mean by "who" and "why." I'm not pushing some kind of conspiracy theory. I'm just making observations of what has happened.

Re: Ask HN: How much of inflation is caused by supply rather than demand issues?

#58
post #52

I have long doubted that policy has much to do with inflation. Having lived through sever inflation, in my personal experience inflation is all about inflationary expectations. It was all about trying to personally gain advantage by getting ahead of everyone else. On the other hand I don't know squat about monetary policy, so I'm probably confused.

Monetary policy says that the most dangerous thing is when inflation expectations become un-moored, which is deeply and fundamentally psychological. If you've lived through that, you probably have a better understanding of the most dangerous part of inflation than any modern US central banker who doesn't have a similar personal experience.

Re: Ask HN: How much of inflation is caused by supply rather than demand issues?

#59
post #5

I am just going to take a minute to point out that 18 months ago I said the inflation wasn't transitory, it was long term, and everyone told me I was crazy when I said the government was lying about it being transitory.

I don’t think the Fed anticipated the war in Ukraine.

I remember Biden going on TV and blaming high YoY inflation on the Ukraine war when it had been going for about 2 weeks. Before that a lot of transitory smoke was being blown up everyone's backside.

Re: Ask HN: How much of inflation is caused by supply rather than demand issues?

#60
The Fed as we have seen definitely "has the power" to raise rates. The question behind your question is, to what extent does raising rates lower inflation? I'm not an economist, just some guy on HN, but I'm pretty persuaded on the idea that inflation is, as others have said, a "monetary phenomenon." If you strip away money for a second, the "actual economy" is just supply (people making stuff), and demand (people buying stuff). Now imagine we're back in 2019 and the economy exists with some baseline amount of money in circulation. Then in 2020 and onwards, more money is printed to allow for emergency government spending in the face of the pandemic (a policy, by the way, that I think was completely correct in context). With interests rates low/zero, the money that was added to the economy basically stayed in the economy, bouncing around according to supply and demand. However, once people got the new money, and people consequently decided to buy more stuff with that money, the economy did not magically start making way more stuff right away to match. Classically, this is where the inflation supposedly happened.

As we discovered with some recent bank failures, it is somewhat more complicated than this. People did not just use the new money to buy stuff. They also used it to invest, and a lot of those investments would not have made sense if interest rates were higher. Somewhere I saw the example of an "AI dog-washing startup"; this fake business illustrates the type of real but not necessarily sound business that was suddenly getting investment because there was a lot of money flying around inside the economy. Now, when the Fed "raised interest rates," what actually happened was it created new investment vehicles (e.g. treasury bonds) that offered returns on investment that were much more attractive to investors than the previous generation that offered low/zero interest. Banks and others shifted towards these new, better investments and tried to sell their old, worse ones. Hence, some of the money that was flying around began to exit the economy and return to the government coffers. This was bad for banks like SVB that had a lot of "interest rate risk." It was also bad for downstream investments like the AI dog-washing startup, which were now competing with "better" businesses in an environment with less money flying around—this is where you see e.g. the current tech hiring downturn and layoffs.

So that's about what the Fed has been able to do. One assumption you've highlighted here is, to what extent is the Fed doing all this based on research and deliberation? I think the short answer is, we don't know. Interest rates are indeed a blunt instrument, but they are also the instrument the Fed can control, and so that's what the Fed is using. This leaves a lot of room for conspiracy theories and speculation. I happen to think the Fed is doing its best within the constraints of its powers, but the Fed cannot singlehandedly "fix the economy." They can print money and adjust interest rates. And doing these things affects the economy in theoretically well-understood ways.

Ultimately, raising rates is like putting an ice pack on an injury. It reduces the swelling, which is helpful, but it doesn't fix the injury per se—the fixing happens in an entirely different, more complex system, really a system of systems. Just so with "the economy." The economy ultimately exists as a sort of distributed phenomenon in the thoughts and actions of all its participants. These thoughts and actions are not aligned, and so we get the infinite omni-directional tug-of-war known as the "invisible hand of the market." The Fed certainly has a lot of ways to influence the economy, but it cannot force people to think or act in precise, coordinated ways.

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