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Ask HN: Would anyone find this system fair?

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Re: Ask HN: Would anyone find this system fair?

#51
Unfortunately, a single developer carrying an entire software team is a common pattern in the industry. I've been in both your situation and the situation of your team mates. If left unaddressed, the organizational momentum will perpetuate this situation. Stakeholders will continue to consider you the trusted party to get things done. This is not only a problem for you, but the organization as well, because your departure could create significant problems stemming from a loss of knowledge.

You may deserve more compensation, but it doesn't solve the problem in the long-term. As you have said, "There is little to no confidence in the others carrying on successfully if I suddenly stopped." Rendering that statement false is the solution. As the lead, it is your responsibility to improve the productivity of your team mates and build trust between them and the organization. It can be a slow process, but one that creates a more sustainable and harmonious situation for both you and your team. As long as you continue to absorb all the work, the situation will never improve.

Here are a few suggestions I've seen work in the past:

- Spend time on an extended vacation. This forces your team members to pick up the slack. It's better than quitting, giving everyone an opportunity to experience you being a single point of failure without the long term catastrophic consequences. Have a frank discussion about how to fix things upon your return.

- Offload yourself as a point of contact for various projects. Hand over initiatives to your fellow team mates. Force stakeholders to meet with them instead of you. Make yourself available to help them succeed.

- Make tasks more digestible for your team mates. Aggressively document things, make tickets easy to understand, set up knowledge sharing sessions.

- Hand new initiatives to your team mates. Let them specify the details.

- Talk to your manager, see if they have any thoughts on how to improve the situation. They are the last person who wants to deal with the fallout of your departure.

- Talk to your team mates, see what motivates them. What do they think they can do to improve the situation? It's not uncommon for team members to feel resentment for you absorbing all of the work.

Re: Ask HN: Would anyone find this system fair?

#52
post #41
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You shouldn't try to bring others down to feel better about making more, you should see what they're being paid and realize you are worth more. This. The company is probably generating oodles of profit. Any profit whatsoever represents the labour of employees for which they haven’t been paid. These employees have generated value through their labour that the company has realized, and the company has decided to stea…

You're really espousing the labor theory of value here?

maybe you should explain why not?

Re: Ask HN: Would anyone find this system fair?

#53
In biglaw, people at most firms are paid this way up until, IIRC, the 8th year.

I think there are many ways in which it is fair. As far as dev jobs, who can usually say, at a big tech company, for example, that one dev adds 200k of value, and another 280k? Aren't salaries artifacts of negotiation and market forces at time of hire than accurate reflectors of job performance?

Re: Ask HN: Would anyone find this system fair?

#54

>I believe they are over paid for where we live This belief is problematic because real (a.k.a. non-bullshit) jobs are typically priced based on the value of what's delivered, not the residence of the person delivering the value. Like race and sexuality, residence is wholly unrelated to the job. I'd consider your predicament to be unfair. It's also not fair that garbage men work 10x harder than you for a fraction of…

> This belief is problematic because real (a.k.a. non-bullshit) jobs are typically priced based on the value of what's delivered, not the residence of the person delivering the value.

Whether it is fair or not, this is definitely not true. Companies tend to pay what they can get away with, which means paying less in lower-cost-of-living areas. The people who assemble iPhones provide tremendous amounts of value. But they make around $4/hour. If you bumped that to $8/hour, Apple would still be tremendously profitable, but they assemble their phones in cheap labor markets where they can get away with paying less. Meanwhile, companies hiring in San Franscisco generally pay skilled workers higher than companies hiring in Oklahoma (let alone overseas), because no one would agree to work in San Fransisco on an Oklahoma salary.

Re: Ask HN: Would anyone find this system fair?

#55
post #52
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're really espousing the labor theory of value here?

maybe you should explain why not?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticisms_of_the_labour_theor...

https://thedispatch.com/newsletter/gfile/everything-wrong-wi... (free subscription required to read the full article, but you can use a throwaway email address)

In short, it's too simple to work in an economy as complex as ours, it completely ignores the impact of demand, and it assumes all workers are equally productive.

Re: Ask HN: Would anyone find this system fair?

#56
post #28
post #2

Why is the level for senior and non senior the same? The company is not tech enough to know the difference?

Fwiw even companies doing software development don’t necessarily follow any rigorous axiom of meritocratic titles.

Sure, but this one seems to have different titles by name, which seem to designate rank (senior), but don't reflect that in the payscale.

Unless saying he is the "only senior dev" was just OP's evaluation of the situation.

Re: Ask HN: Would anyone find this system fair?

#57
post #18

> Everyone on the same level gets the same base pay … I am the only senior. So you’re not on the same level, so you get paid more? Except you don’t? That’s a contradiction. I’d start applying and interviewing elsewhere, and once you have an offer, decide which one you’d rather do. If you’re not happy where you’re at, don’t wait, start making a plan B now

They said it's not a tech firm. I'd guess there is nobody else in the firm who understands anything that team does, and therefore there is an assumption that all developers are interchangeable.

Every firm is a tech firm if they have developers, it's just a question of if their tech generates revenue or is just a cost. Either way they need to pay developer rates, and have a developer seniority structure.

Re: Ask HN: Would anyone find this system fair?

#58
Stop giving your employer free labor. It sounds like you're on your way to burnout, and your misplacing some of your frustration onto the Jr devs.

Let me ask you this: What $$ will the current level of work be acceptable? My guess is that it's well above what your employer is willing to pay.

I'd suggest you do what your Jr peels do + 10%, that'll fulfill the requirement for bump & bonus. Also spend some time building relationships. If your manager mentions you no longer doing XYZ, show off your +10%. Politely and tactfully deflect if he tries to press the issue.

To answer your fairness question directly the system sounds inefficient and currently not fair. I think it could be fair(for whatever that means), given the right environment, and attitudes.

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