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Ask HN: Lead developer but I just don't enjoy management

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Re: Ask HN: Lead developer but I just don't enjoy management

#51

Post by jkingsbery »

I've worked as a manager of engineers for three different companies, and in 2 of those 3 times it followed the pattern of my manager being stretched too thin and asking me to take on management capabilities.

I figure at some time in the future I'll probably have to do it again, but like you, it's not the thing I enjoy. My current company has a non-management track, allowing me to stay as an individual contributor. Some of what you describe is really about getting sucked into management specifically, but some of what you describe is inherent to increasing in seniority. As a more senior individual contributor, I get to still focus on technical problems, but a lot of these technical problems are more about what is the right system to use for solving a problem, or how to get two systems to talk to each other, rather than writing the code for that myself. Also, as you gain seniority more of what you do is necessarily going to be giving advice and feedback to others - but as a more senior IC, most of the feedback I find myself giving is about how to approach technical problems rather than dealing with HR headache type feedback.

It sounds like the company you work for is relatively new. It might be worth raising the concept of a dedicated IC track with your manager. That being said, it might simply be impractical for the company to move you to that position until it has grown a bit more.

Re: Ask HN: Lead developer but I just don't enjoy management

#53

Post by wefarrell »

If you've been there for a while it could be worth taking a sabbatical of a few months to clear your head and decide what really makes you happy. In that time your company will have adjusted to your absence and you and they will be in a better position to define your new role without having to fix the gap that you left.

Re: Ask HN: Lead developer but I just don't enjoy management

#54

Post by zombietrumpet »

I can relate to you. This is me currently. I ended up transitioning into a leadership position with a dev team as well, and I don't love it either. It's a lot of 1-on-1s and stakeholders. So many meetings.

I don't have any shares, but I just found a new job in a smaller shop as a dev. I know that's what I want to do, so I just went for it. It's slightly lower paying than my current job, but I know I'll be happier. Honestly, if I were you, I would ask them to hire a Manager and if that doesn't go, I would look elsewhere.

Re: Ask HN: Lead developer but I just don't enjoy management

#55

Post by MuffinFlavored »

gedy wrote: post #39
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and the staff engineer track. It sounds like you simply want to do the latter - so no, there is nothing wrong or unusual with what you are wanting. I could be wrong but it sounds like the OP doesn't even want to be a staff engineer (if my understanding of staff engineer is correct). https://davidxiang.com/2021/01/19/staff-software-engineer-re... I'm pretty sure you're still expected to guide other engineers (co-wor…

Yeah I don't know when Staff SE became pitched as this lofty leadership position like this, but first half of my career in multiple companies this was basically just next step up in IC positions after Senior SE, not leadership. Principal then after that.

When does IC (individual contributor) go from "how efficient/effective can you make the other ICs on the team?"

I've seen ICs who say "my purpose isn't to code, it's to increase the efficiency of the other ICs on the team who do code, which makes me a 10x engineer, despite not coding, because I increase each team member's individual productivity which is collectively more than I could output individually myself"

Re: Ask HN: Lead developer but I just don't enjoy management

#56

Post by watwut »

I have seen two team leaders to step down from their position. In one case to be developer in different team and in other case he stayed in team where he was.

I had friends who said they don't want to be teamleader when changing companies, tho I did not worked with them.

So, the point is, telling that you don't want to be lead is an option.

Re: Ask HN: Lead developer but I just don't enjoy management

#57

Post by Scubabear68 »

Not all technical people have the temperament for management. Some do, but many do not, and nothing you can do can really change that for them. It's similar to looking at something like Sales - some people are born to sell, other people will never excel at it (I am in that boat!).

It sounds like you are one of those people who's brain is not wired for management. That's OK. In an ideal world, you should seek out a company that supports career tracks for pure-technical roles (like the old Bell Labs did).

The problem of course is that it's not an ideal world. And that's where you have to dig in deep and decide what's right for you. Some people are able to stick it out and vest and manage to be so-so managers. For other people, that would be soul crushing.

The start is to be honest to yourself about who you are, what you enjoy, and what your goals are. And be realistic. If you shoot for the "perfect" job you may end up unemployed or miserable in serial job hunts. Find out what your "really good" job looks like, and what warts you can live with and what are deal breakers, and evaluate that against life stuff like finances, family, retirement, etc.

Re: Ask HN: Lead developer but I just don't enjoy management

#58

Post by flashgordon »

dbrueck wrote: post #36

Same boat as you, tried for a decade to figure it out, tried many of the suggestions here, eventually gave up and switched to starting small startups and then when they start to grow past a certain point, transitioning to someone else and then moving on to a new company. A lot of people are just really good at different stages of a company's growth. Me, I'm good at starting from scratch and going until we've shipped…

Damn how does one find such gigs and do so in a sustainable way?

Re: Ask HN: Lead developer but I just don't enjoy management

#59

Post by monsieurbanana »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #37
bpicolo wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Staff engineers are not a monolith. Software engineering is a huge discipline. There are staff engineers out there that do more architect/solver types of work. https://staffeng.com/guides/staff-archetypes In any case, leadership skills tend to go with the territory.

> Staff engineers are not a monolith. In my experience, all it takes is your organization to go through one "re-structure", you randomly get a new manager one day, and they have a different expectation on what staff engineer means/should do. Next thing you know, you're being expected to stop architecting so much, spend more time mentoring interns who have never coded before and got hired randomly because ______. I wo…

I recently went through a "re-structure", and the result was a massive layoff, including Staff-level engineers. So I don't find that as a particularly compelling argument, your job description is never safe anyways.

Re: Ask HN: Lead developer but I just don't enjoy management

#60

Post by Jemaclus »

Director-level here. It's great that you gave it a shot, but management isn't for everyone! In fact, when most engineers come to me and say "I want to be a manager," the first thing I say is "No, you don't."

Not in a judgmental way, and not in a mean way, but more as a warning system to say "You want more money or responsibility, and management is one of many ways to get those things."

The other thing I say is, "At some point during your management career, _you will stop writing code on a daily basis_." If you like writing code more than anything else, this probably isn't the right role for you!

We then spend the rest of the conversation talking about what their goals are, and how we can get them there. Some folks are insistent that they want to be a manager, and we figure out a path to do that, and some folks are sufficiently deterred by the things I said.

It's not that I don't want you to be a manager, it's that I want you to have a job that you are excited about, and for _most_ engineers, management is soul-draining. They want to write code and solve problems, not sit in endless meetings!

Because of this, I personally have zero compunction about anyone who becomes a manager and then comes to me and says, "This isn't for me. I hate it. Can I go back to being an IC?"

No problem at all.

So with all of that said, management is NOT "a part of career progression." You do NOT have to go into management. Most tech companies have two tracks for career progression: technical and management. At most companies, a Staff Engineer is the equivalent of a Manager, and a Principal engineer is the equivalent of a Director. You can continue to lead teams in a technical fashion without losing your entire week to meetings and people management. It's possible. Your current company may not have that structure, but a lot of companies do!

If you feel comfortable doing this, I would go to your boss and say, "Hey, I don't love this management thing. I think I would have a bigger impact as an IC. Can we work on a transition plan to get me back to full-time IC work? I am happy to help hire my backfill."

This is very, very normal. Anyone who says otherwise is simply wrong.

Do not feel bad for yourself, do not feel like you failed. It's simply a bad fit, and you are looking for a way to improve your own happiness and your own career path.

Good luck!

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