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Ask HN: Have you ever heard of users demonstrating against software?

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Re: Ask HN: Have you ever heard of users demonstrating against software?

#51

Post by prox »

humanistbot wrote: post #45

There was a case more than 20 years ago of a similar revolt against a Canadian hospital's automated drug dispensing machine that would only let nurses withdraw the exact dose of medicine a patient needed in a short window around when patient was supposed to take each dose. It was so bad it got written up into an academic article: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/016224390202700...

That reminds of that Star Trek episode “Critical Care” where people only get the resources allowed by an AI overseer. How does this even pass an early review?

Re: Ask HN: Have you ever heard of users demonstrating against software?

#52

Post by quijoteuniv »

etiam wrote: post #26
quacked wrote: post #13

Secondary to the question, but I live right by the Epic campus and use the Epic MyChart platform to communicate with the University of Wisconsin health system. It is phenomenal as a patient; I can handle all billing, message any doctor I've seen, view test results as soon as they're uploaded, etc. Recently I saw the results of some bloodwork in the ER before the nurses had time to come and tell me about it. (The UI/U…

Now proceed to imagine that software being shoehorned into a healthcare system where many aspects of the US healthcare system are impossible to fill out at the care provider side, because they don't exist in the society model. (Let's be honest, you guys have opted for a model which have several very distinctive features in an international comparison). And I'd be surprised if the Norwegians didn't already have the po…

yes, the patient side already exist here as far as I know. Helseplatform use their endpoints. The integration is mostly for the hospital, pre-ER and city health services. The pre-ER or LegeVakt (Scandinavian system you call/go if you need assistance but is not life threatning) has been using it for a few months and service level is now so bad that they have apologised in the newspapers. The city that has been sold this system had a wishful thought that all the doctors practices (and all Norway) was also going to use it. This is simply not going to happen now. However the "city" used so much money on this that they refuse to hear the health personel and insist on going further with the project without improving the system. Apparently Epic selling points was something like "It is not going to happen what happened in Denmark" Maybe some Danish people can iluminate on what happened there.

Re: Ask HN: Have you ever heard of users demonstrating against software?

#53

Post by vedran »

h4n1 wrote: post #47
3pt14159 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, ArriveCan was frequently mentioned by many in the protests around covid. From my end: I dislike near-mandatory apps by governments, but I felt like Covid was an exceptional time and at least it is non-mandatory now at the boarder.

ArriveCAN was quite stupid, but at least it was fairly simple and the mobile app was just a convenient wrapper around the web app. It could have been so much worse.

Although it did cost $54 million. https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/arrivecan-app-cost-cbsa-brea...

Re: Ask HN: Have you ever heard of users demonstrating against software?

#56

Post by hotpotamus »

prox wrote: post #51
humanistbot wrote: post #45

There was a case more than 20 years ago of a similar revolt against a Canadian hospital's automated drug dispensing machine that would only let nurses withdraw the exact dose of medicine a patient needed in a short window around when patient was supposed to take each dose. It was so bad it got written up into an academic article: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/016224390202700...

That reminds of that Star Trek episode “Critical Care” where people only get the resources allowed by an AI overseer. How does this even pass an early review?

It sounds a bit like the smart contract/DAO thing, doesn't it?

Re: Ask HN: Have you ever heard of users demonstrating against software?

#57

Post by 3pt14159 »

vedran wrote: post #53
h4n1 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ArriveCAN was quite stupid, but at least it was fairly simple and the mobile app was just a convenient wrapper around the web app. It could have been so much worse.

Although it did cost $54 million. https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/arrivecan-app-cost-cbsa-brea...

Honestly, as a former government contractor at a couple different places, this is pretty good bang for the buck. The planning meetings alone were probably $12m.

Re: Ask HN: Have you ever heard of users demonstrating against software?

#58

Post by motohagiography »

Just this year, Canada invoked its federal emergencies act against protesters who were revolting against a mobile app that was being used as a vaccine passport. It is still required for some travel, but since it only impacts a minority of the population who don't work in media, it's not part of the popular discourse. The irony is that the public inquiry launched in response is only into the use of the act against protesters, and not into the abuses that led to it.

Re: Ask HN: Have you ever heard of users demonstrating against software?

#59

Post by colinmhayes »

quacked wrote: post #13

Secondary to the question, but I live right by the Epic campus and use the Epic MyChart platform to communicate with the University of Wisconsin health system. It is phenomenal as a patient; I can handle all billing, message any doctor I've seen, view test results as soon as they're uploaded, etc. Recently I saw the results of some bloodwork in the ER before the nurses had time to come and tell me about it. (The UI/U…

I have some doctors in my family and they told me that when their system switched to Epic, Epic sent a consultant to sit in their office for months and answer questions because every new user complains about UX.

Re: Ask HN: Have you ever heard of users demonstrating against software?

#60

Post by electriccatblan »

quacked wrote: post #13

Secondary to the question, but I live right by the Epic campus and use the Epic MyChart platform to communicate with the University of Wisconsin health system. It is phenomenal as a patient; I can handle all billing, message any doctor I've seen, view test results as soon as they're uploaded, etc. Recently I saw the results of some bloodwork in the ER before the nurses had time to come and tell me about it. (The UI/U…

Disclaimer: My Epic experience is around a decade old.

I never saw a riot, but I definitely saw providers who hated Epic when it was installed. As in people literally screaming at the top of their lungs at IT nerds. I saw a few contributing factors:

1. Epic supports making all the technically-mandatory-but-not-mandatory-if-you're-in-a-hurry data actually mandatory, so providers have more typing and less ability to just get stuff done when needed (which minimizes agency).

2. Related to above, Epic will make the updates for any new regulation, which increases the amount of data providers need to collect.

3. The customizability of the Epic UI and workflows for each type of visit was completely insane; many permutations of steps in a visit had to be supported which meant a huge maintenance surface with ok coverage rather than an opinionated workflow for each visit that could be optimized and improved over time.

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