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Ask HN: How did you start higher education after 40?

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Re: Ask HN: How did you start higher education after 40?

#51

I went straight to work and didn't get to college until 41/42. I'm working on my undergrad and plan to continue to my masters. I've found it incredibly rewarding for two main reasons. First, since I have a career already, I'm free of the pressure to go to school for career purposes and can focus on something I enjoy, which also provides immense value to what I'm doing every day (I chose philosophy, much more relevant…

Can you expand on how you found philosophy practical?

Just to offer a counter-point to the others here, I've personally noticed that quite a few people who study philosophy (either formally or via self-study) tend to become "disembodied". Formal reason becomes king, even when informal methods are more appropriate for solving the task at hand, and the intangible becomes irrelevant, even when it matters deeply.

Perhaps things would be different for someone in their 40s, who has a wealth of real world experience to draw on, philosophy would be valuable. But for the average 18 year old kid, studying it seems to create a set of terrible habits that take years to undo before the student can become a properly integrated adult.

Re: Ask HN: How did you start higher education after 40?

#52

Not worth the hassle in my opinion. People who don't have it often think they need it but the reality is that you can learn on your own and fast as well.

With amount of debt it requires, I would agree with this. If you can get a free ride to school the only thing you are looking at is the time and opportunity cost. Adding monetary cost makes the return more difficult to justify.

Re: Ask HN: How did you start higher education after 40?

#54

I wanted to get a PhD in CS at 40 but was convinced by a local professor of CS that it was a waste of everyone's time and there were no jobs to be had in the academic world anyway. Shortly thereafter Google started hiring them by the truckload. I wish I had ignored him. I did have a 4 decade career as a programmer, but who knows what might have happened if I had taken the time mid-career to do the doctorate.

Ironically, CS professors and teachers are, from last I heard, in extremely high demand now because so many CS PhD grads leave for industry (and 3 or 5x the pay of academics). I don't think that was just as adjuncts either. Some universities are willing to pay way more than adjunct salaries to get CS grads with real teaching ability. I doubt you'll ever see industry competitive salaries though.

This economic opportunity is only true for PhDs in CS or engineering and even there, only for hot research areas. Good luck getting 5x academic pay with a PhD in geology.

Generally speaking, the professor's advice from 25 years ago is still solid: don't get a PhD unless you are interested in an academic career, research, teaching etc. Due to the prestige of such a career, it tends to have an oversupply of applicants - the majority of which will not get a commensurate payback for the efforts required by a proper PhD thesis. So they will either flunk / present a low effort thesis, or worse still, they will invest a few years into a good thesis but never develop their career and skills gained into a full academic job.

So getting a PhD for the sake of it might not be a good investment of your time and effort career-wise; If you want to do it for the intelectual challenge on a topic you are very interested in, that's always a suficient motivation.

Re: Ask HN: How did you start higher education after 40?

#55
I think you need to be clear on your time commitment and reasons for studying. I'm studying a part-time MBA (online, remote) while working full-time (although thankfully my day job has been quiet for the last few months due to cock-ups in project planning, etc.).

I'm allowed up to 5 years to finish, but I'm cramming it in to 2.5 years altogether. I could take fewer modules and spin it out, but I don't want to be studying forever. The workload this last 6 months has been insane. If I'd had kids or had had to do any real work in my day job there's no way I'd have managed. The last 3 months especially have just involved pretty much constant studying, coursework and revising.

While they pitched the course as being flexible, the reality is there's limited flexibility once you've started a module with my uni. I asked whether I could postpone one of my 3 pieces of coursework by extending one module by 3 months and was told no. The online support from the university has been, frankly, shit. Any questions beyond the most basic (such as being able to see high-scoring past exam submissions to try to improve my marks) were met with delays of several months. I've had multiple instances where my questions have only been answered after contacting the formal complaints team. However, support from tutors/teaching assistants has been good, although I've rarely needed to contact them.

So my advice is to be clear about how much time you're willing to give to studying, what your motivation is, and to do your research on how good any support is likely to be. Related to the first point is how much of an impact you mind it taking on your social life.

In my case, studying online means I won't build any kind of network, which is one of the most touted benefits of an in-person MBA. Still, it's costing me £20k all in. Full-time for 2 years isn't really an option since it'd cost me so much in lost income, so I'll have to build a network later.

Having said all that, as a senior developer, I've found the MBA to be very interesting. I've tried starting multiple side projects in the past and haven't really got anywhere. I now have a much greater understanding of business and am confident that my odds of being able to start a successful business have massively improved. It's helped me clarify my life goals, understand the world more, will make me a better investor and open the doors to more interesting work if I decide not to start my own business. The combination of top-tier technical skills and an MBA will inevitably be powerful and give me more options. I'm looking forward to it all being over this time next year though.

Re: Ask HN: How did you start higher education after 40?

#56

Tangentially related to your question, but I figured it might help if you need to review math at some point. Given it has been a while since you last did math courses, I have a non-free book on CALCULUS[1] and another one on LINEAR ALGEBRA[2] that are written specifically for adults who need a condensed (but complete) review of the material. See PDF previews below. [1] https://minireference.com/static/excerpts/noBSma…

Did you accidentally upload the entire books as PDFs? If not, then those are some really long previews.

Re: Ask HN: How did you start higher education after 40?

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you expand on how you found philosophy practical?

My daughter is a philosophy major while most of my family has been STEM for generations (father's an engineer, mother taught college math, grandfather was an engineer). I'm reassured by the requirements for formal logic, and the obvious applications in law, but also at the intersection of law, ethics, and many of the ML systems that I foresee coming online. She actually brought up this Harvard philosophy professor wh…

In my experience, philosophers make great software engineers. I’ve worked with a few and always been happy to work with them.

Re: Ask HN: How did you start higher education after 40?

#58

Unless you’re teaching don’t waste your time. To me it smells like a vanity play, unless you’re doing it so you can get another 100k per year. And yes, I can hear the people saying education is always a good thing to have. But it reminds me of so many friends who have jobs less than 100k per year in the USA and go to take a masters degree. In almost every case, the higher degree did not change the outcomes they wante…

It's not all about money. I'm not earning staggering amounts more since doing this, but I'm able to do more interesting work and I loved the experience. Life is a very sad place when everything is viewed as an item on a balance sheet. The one thing I do agree with there is that education is overpriced in America. As a European, I'd go as far as to say it's exploitative. That OP is considering suggests the cost, where…

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Re: Ask HN: How did you start higher education after 40?

#59

A lot of colleges have Older Than Average programs. They not only are accelerated ways to get your degree, but meet at night to make them easier to continue your career. I've had a couple of relatives go this route. They tend to have a lot more support available. Students starting after 40 is actually fairly normal at the Native American colleges. Our TCU (tribal college or university) has a lot of almost independent…

For my Bachelors I was in one of these programs. You get some accelerated credit for experience and classes outside my major (CS) were available at night or on weekends. Many CS classes were available at night as well.

In terms of people talking about debt - I went to a decent state school, took one class a semester or much of it and paid as I went - so there was not much financial strain. I work in IT and am in a higher tax bracket after all. On the other side of finance, during interviews I can talk about my college experience if asked about it. Also Leetcode interviews and the like seems to be a test if I remember what I learned in college - dynamic programming, big O notation, how to implement a stack etc. So you pay in terms of time and money but you get paid back in terms of possibly greater opportunities.

Insofar as people talking about learning on your own - as far as I see, most self-taught people tend to have gaps in knowing more theoretical stuff like pushdown automata, or concurrent critical sections, or abstract syntax trees or Goedel numbers or second normal form or that kind of thing. You're supposed to spend at least three times as much time studying as in class, so if a Bachelors is four years, those three years are similar to self-study, minus things like the chance at the chance of questions during and after class and during office hours. So the only difference from self-study is not four years but one year, minus the benefits of classmates, professors and the rigor of a more theoretical curriculum than most self-taught people do, if they even know they should learn about things like the pumping lemma.

Re: Ask HN: How did you start higher education after 40?

#60
post #41

Unless you’re teaching don’t waste your time. To me it smells like a vanity play, unless you’re doing it so you can get another 100k per year. And yes, I can hear the people saying education is always a good thing to have. But it reminds me of so many friends who have jobs less than 100k per year in the USA and go to take a masters degree. In almost every case, the higher degree did not change the outcomes they wante…

> To me it smells like a vanity play, unless you’re doing it so you can get another 100k per year. Hehe, it’s vanity unless you’re only doing it for money? This is twisted! ;) > The world is moving to a place where degrees are no longer worth what they were in almost every profession Do you have any stats or data to back this up? This is a common trope here and elsewhere (ala “Joe the Plumber”), but it seems to be la…

> This data isn’t a statistical sampling, BTW, the Fed has data on all US citizens.

Actually... that report leans very heavily on the Survey of Consumer Finances [0], which is absolutely a sampling (latest iteration was 6500 families out of the 120 million households in the US).

Per page 3 of the report: "We use the Federal Reserve Board’s Survey of Consumer Finances (SCF), which covers family heads born throughout the twentieth century, to determine whether the economic and financial benefits of obtaining a postsecondary degree have changed over time."

[0] https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/aboutscf.htm

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