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Ask HN: Should I checkmate my employer?

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Re: Ask HN: Should I checkmate my employer?

#51

Post by owow123 »

goshx wrote: post #50
owow123 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't true. I've got one person under me and have done for 3-5 years. Most have enjoyed working under me (so I understand it), most resignations have been for bigger opportunities / bigger cities / bigger money (1 out of 4, and TBH I missed they wanted more money - this was my fault). My current "report" seems very happy (though I expect them to leave soon, not for money but they are far more interested in anoth…

If you leave, can this report take over and be successful?

No.

They could do infrastructure, kind off, not code - no chance (I like them as a person but they depend on me to teach them how to code)

Hire "younglings" (star-wars) is my remit.

Re: Ask HN: Should I checkmate my employer?

#52

Post by nixgeek »

owow123 wrote: post #25
goshx wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that it shouldn’t sound like a threat, but there is no team. He’s the only person. There is only one way for the employer to feel the pain.

This isn't true. I've got one person under me and have done for 3-5 years. Most have enjoyed working under me (so I understand it), most resignations have been for bigger opportunities / bigger cities / bigger money (1 out of 4, and TBH I missed they wanted more money - this was my fault). My current "report" seems very happy (though I expect them to leave soon, not for money but they are far more interested in anoth…

One person under you for 3-5 years with a four attritions in that period (this latest one being Person #5?) constitutes an incredibly high attrition rate. That’s worth introspecting on. Average tenure of under a year?!

Re: Ask HN: Should I checkmate my employer?

#53

Post by stickyricky »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #46
stickyricky wrote: post #30

Its shocking to me how poorly people are compensated in the UK. There's no way a competitive market could exist there. Move to America if you dare... you can actually make something of your life.

I can assure you that there very much is a competitive market for engineering talent in the UK. Salaries are generally lower than the US market, but a £60k salary still puts someone in the top 10% nationally in terms of income.

Does it make the situation better if everyone is mistreated? Part of me wonders if its a bunch of old money Lords and Ladies bank rolling these businesses. They just crush you and tell you its a "competitive market".

What do I know. I'm literally making stuff up on a Saturday morning. At his experience level and skill set you can make triple in America.

Re: Ask HN: Should I checkmate my employer?

#54

Post by matthewmacleod »

It certainly sounds reasonable that you'd be looking for a new role – from what you've said I'd bet your CV isn't coming across the way you want.

The CV check is basically always going to be "does this person roughly look like they have an appropriate level of experience in the areas required for this job". You probably need to make sure you're tailoring it appropriately for the specific roles you're applying for. If you're applying for an IT management role, focus on the procurement and management and less on the "building services" part. If you're pitching yourself as a PHP developer, focus on the services and the development practices you used, and drop all the stuff about building out servers. And don't be afraid to send different CVs for different roles.

Definitely consider using a tech recruiter to place to as well. They're bastards but useful in some cases.

Re: Ask HN: Should I checkmate my employer?

#55

Post by nixgeek »

owow123 wrote: post #21
4bpp wrote: post #14

It sounds like you may be failing some sort of implicit cultural filters - you've been in the same small workplace for 8 years and apparently your circles don't include highly-paid IT/development people. "International-tier" tech is a fairly distinctive and exclusionary culture to anyone who is not fluent in either its own norms or those of a handful of adjacent academic fields, and the boundary may be policed based…

This is an interesting take on my writing style. I will certainly apply this to my CV, perhaps my personal statement is to "aggressive" (here I am doing it again). Thank you.

I looked a bit at your comment history on HN, I get there’s an aspect of “Anonymous on the Internet”, but if your approach here [1] is remotely like your approach in the workplace and I got any signal of that in an interview context you’d be “Strong No Hire” for me.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32313774

Re: Ask HN: Should I checkmate my employer?

#56

Post by FabHK »

owow123 wrote: post #21
4bpp wrote: post #14

It sounds like you may be failing some sort of implicit cultural filters - you've been in the same small workplace for 8 years and apparently your circles don't include highly-paid IT/development people. "International-tier" tech is a fairly distinctive and exclusionary culture to anyone who is not fluent in either its own norms or those of a handful of adjacent academic fields, and the boundary may be policed based…

This is an interesting take on my writing style. I will certainly apply this to my CV, perhaps my personal statement is to "aggressive" (here I am doing it again). Thank you.

Agreed with GP.

Your submission appears put together without any care ("NH", "i", "wont", "cant", "circles", "Bad", "dont", and presumably that hyphen is a minus "-" rather than an en-dash "–" or an em-dash "—" (though it's not that important)).

Unless your achievements are stellar, you are not in a position to neglect these details.

Next, don't bring your grievances with you. Your next employer bears no responsibility for whatever happened to you in the past. Why should they want to deal with someone that is grumpy and entitled?

Focus on your achievements and what you can bring to the job.

Next, continue your search and do find an external offer, then evaluate your options. I would not suggest a confrontational approach with your current employer, threatening to leave. Rather, talk to them and say, sincerely, that you'd like to stay with them, but you cannot afford to forego all of the raise that the other company is offering you. (If you can't say that sincerely, because you do want to leave, then: leave.)

Typically, companies like to retain their talent, as it is expensive and risky to hire and train someone new. That is good for you, but it is always easier to negotiate if you do have an alternative at hand, rather than having to bluff.

Re: Ask HN: Should I checkmate my employer?

#57

Post by matthewmacleod »

stickyricky wrote: post #53
matthewmacleod wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can assure you that there very much is a competitive market for engineering talent in the UK. Salaries are generally lower than the US market, but a £60k salary still puts someone in the top 10% nationally in terms of income.

Does it make the situation better if everyone is mistreated? Part of me wonders if its a bunch of old money Lords and Ladies bank rolling these businesses. They just crush you and tell you its a "competitive market". What do I know. I'm literally making stuff up on a Saturday morning. At his experience level and skill set you can make triple in America.

This suggests that you're also probably overestimating the average income of tech workers in the US generally; people's views of this are often distorted by the headline figures from big tech companies, which aren't terribly representative of the diversity of roles across the country.

Re: Ask HN: Should I checkmate my employer?

#58

Post by ryandrake »

ErrantX wrote: post #32

A) Sit your employer down and say "I am applying for Jobs in the 80-100K range because . When I get an offer I will take it, you are welcome to make me an offer to stick around now" B) Get on LinkedIn and scope out some recruiters, reach out to the ones you like the look of with a brief of the sort of role your looking for. Get on the phone with them and get their advice - they will get you interviews. Don't stop B i…

> Sit your employer down and say "I am applying for Jobs in the 80-100K range because . When I get an offer I will take it, you are welcome to make me an offer to stick around now"

I don't know if I would recommend that. No upside to the employee. A large "egoless value maximizer" business will simply do nothing until employee shows them an actual offer, and only then counter-offer if they want to retain. A small business where manager's ego is a factor may just fire the employee on the spot for disloyalty. Pretty close to zero companies will respond by immediately raising employee's salary to what he wants.

Re: Ask HN: Should I checkmate my employer?

#59

Post by twobitshifter »

I don’t think you can checkmate your employer and attempting to do that will show them the risk and they’ll start working to mitigate it. You might get a raise in the short term and then be let go in a year.

For the CV question, ask yourself why would a company hire you over another applicant? Make sure you highlight that in the CV and that you apply to jobs where that is your competitive advantage. If you’re trying to change careers somewhat, you might have to make a “lateral move” for the same pay so that you can build skills.

Re: Ask HN: Should I checkmate my employer?

#60

Post by throwawybllion »

Learn a new language. PHP (while not entirely garbage in its modern form, though based on your post I'm guessing you're not using it in a very modern way) has a stigma insofar as I (for one) assume someone that has only used PHP is not likely to ramp up quickly because they lack intellectual curiosity.

Honestly, when I'm looking at resumes, I immediately assume anyone that only has experience in one language is at best a junior level engineer even if they have 10 years of experience.

I'd recommend Python or Java. .NET is also an option. Learn them in your spare time (hell, even use them at work, no one will notice) and make sure you build something substantial before you put it on your resume.

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