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Ask HN: How do you know if you're burnt out or just being lazy?

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51–60 of 106 posts

Re: Ask HN: How do you know if you're burnt out or just being lazy?

#51
post #21

First, check the essentials: Are you sleeping, eating decent food, and exercising regularly? If not, you may be neither burnt out nor lazy. Take care of this stuff first. Second, have you spent the last year working so hard that nothing short of a physical illness will make you slow down? Do you regularly push through problems with sheer willpower? Do you crave the next "green" unit test result beyond all sanity? If…

I'm working like 70ish hours on busy weeks (unavoidable since I'm in a start-up & college at the same time) and I concur after a certain threshold your mental abilities get dramatically diminished plus your health severely damaged.

In fact if you're putting that many hours, you're probably also mistreating your body, doing little to no exercise and incurring in sleep debt. And I repeat, I know because I'm being this stupid. After two months of this ridiculous schedule I find myself fairly drowsy during the day, unable to resolve challenging problems. My body is acquiring fat very easily and I suffer from the stomach + a lot of headaches. And I just have been two months through this.

To be honest, the period in my life in which I succeeded the most was the one in which I had my needs completely met and I enjoyed every bit of my work, working as hard as I could. If you're a coder mental clarity is one of your biggest assets, so either run out of that health destructive spiral (that's what I'm going to do as soon as this quarter ends) or just stick with physical and mental problems.

Re: Ask HN: How do you know if you're burnt out or just being lazy?

#52
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a very unethical comment. Not impressed. The last thing somebody who is suffering from burn out and possibly depression needs to hear is that it's their own fault for being lazy. It only leads to making the problem deeper + worse, and can be a very dangerous mindset. I'd be careful to consider whether it's the right course for you too, given you report feeling exhausted and depressed. Even if so, and you see…

Actually, I just wanted to see if, on a thread about Burn-out, anyone would recognise it when they see it. Evidently, not. I'm in the fun dichotomy of knowing damned well that I'm at the end of my tether, burned-out beyond belief, and not having the time or energy to do a bloody thing about it. I work, from the moment I wake to the moment I fall asleep on my laptop, to the moment I'm woken 20 minutes later by a clien…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: How do you know if you're burnt out or just being lazy?

#53
post #13

Burnout is not solved by a nap or a walk, a burn out is not just being tired or saturated with a subject. You are burnt when you pushed your limits over a long period of time without giving your body and brain enough rest. This means you do not have a quick fix. You cannot quick fix something you have done over months, years. It takes time. In my personal case, I suffered a burn out (went several times to the doctor,…

This corroborate what I have seen happen in the CTO I had a few years ago. He worked 5 years without rest. Was called by big boss in Sunday mornings to fix things. Was a very sanguine type, shout on everyone for nothing, said no to everything. All lines of code were either quick fixes or copy paste. Absolutely not long-term view. Database tables had 300 columns, named like event1, event1time, event1who, event2, event2time, etc.

He had a team of 10 interns and only one regular, and no interns would stay. He also had a specific way to breathe, like when you suffocate after 25 meters under the water in the pool.

He was so overwhelmed he grabbed a few set of random rules as his life buoys. For instance, use of s was forbidden because once a did float badly when resized. So we had pages with over 20 nested and not one had a raison d'être.

Then he got mad against the big boss, and I replaced him. Result: he was sick for 6 months. His body had to take a revenge.

I believe he is still looking for a job.

Maybe this could be a counter-point to the guy above saying that only work is important, and that all seconds spent not working or sleeping are lost. I think it is a dangerous way to dispose of your life.

Moreover, if the goal is to succeed, I think it is wrong that all "great achievers" are necessarily 100% focused on their one tasks. Many of them actually had hobbies, and a very wide and deep general knowledge of Humanities (which can only be gathered through extensive reading).

So I would say to the OP, just stop focusing, read books, try for example "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance", feed your "gumption". (And go fishing!)

Re: Ask HN: How do you know if you're burnt out or just being lazy?

#54
post #52
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, I just wanted to see if, on a thread about Burn-out, anyone would recognise it when they see it. Evidently, not. I'm in the fun dichotomy of knowing damned well that I'm at the end of my tether, burned-out beyond belief, and not having the time or energy to do a bloody thing about it. I work, from the moment I wake to the moment I fall asleep on my laptop, to the moment I'm woken 20 minutes later by a clien…

[deleted]

People will do the minimum amount of work necessary for the maximal reward. If the minimum amount of work necessary is to just go "can't you just do it", they'll do just that.

As to lumbering employees with this stuff - really, really can't. The guys we employ we employ as developers, not 24/7 unpaid support dogsbodies, which I am, as well as developer, accountant, project manager, salesman and all the rest. It's part and parcel of being self-employed, and at the end of the day I just see it as a failing in myself that I'm not capable of the workload required and demanded of me.

Re: Ask HN: How do you know if you're burnt out or just being lazy?

#55
post #23
post #21

First, check the essentials: Are you sleeping, eating decent food, and exercising regularly? If not, you may be neither burnt out nor lazy. Take care of this stuff first. Second, have you spent the last year working so hard that nothing short of a physical illness will make you slow down? Do you regularly push through problems with sheer willpower? Do you crave the next "green" unit test result beyond all sanity? If…

What you describe there is laziness. Burnout is this weird concept that developers have invented to describe "I can't be bothered to keep going". 5 years, no days off, one 5 day holiday per year, on call 24/7 for the duration, and I'm just fine. Depressed and exhausted, yes, but the work keeps flowing in and the code keeps flowing out, which is all that matters. I guess what I'm getting at is that people have forgott…

5 years, no days off, one 5 day holiday per year, on call 24/7 for the duration, and I'm just fine.

You mention hard work, but I would argue you are really not working that hard. Working hard (either physically or mentally) like you say you do is simply not sustainable long term. I have known people who have put themselves in the hospital through burnout. Sleeping at the office 6 days/week, living on vending machine food, and the stress of the whole thing is physically dangerous. This doesn't even address the quality of their work which went down over time.

It's similar to the overtraining concept when weight lifting. If you are only playing with the pink weights then it's easy to workout for hours each day, every day. Start messing around with real weight on the same schedule and your body will eventually start regressing. It simply does not have time to fully recover from each workout. I believe this also happens with tough mental work.

Keep in mind this isn't talking about a crunch time or short stints of crazy work. Burnout comes from long runs of working at a non-sustainable pace.

Re: Ask HN: How do you know if you're burnt out or just being lazy?

#56
post #31
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depressed and exhausted, yes, but the work keeps flowing in and the code keeps flowing out You call that just fine? This is not fine. This is not healthy and this is the attitude you should be fighting against. If you honestly think that you are a better person and you produce your best work when you're exhausted and depressed, you should probably get some other opinions on that, because I have a strong feeling that…

It's fine once you adjust your value system to recognise that work is life, and that everything else is basically irrelevant. No family to speak of (apart from the ones who expect a monthly cheque from me (brother, aunt, mother)), co-workers are employees, so not appropriate for me to talk about it with them!

Work is life? That is a recipe for either 1) burnout and depression or 2) an early death.

You're literally killing yourself. You just don't know it yet.

Re: Ask HN: How do you know if you're burnt out or just being lazy?

#59
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a very unethical comment. Not impressed. The last thing somebody who is suffering from burn out and possibly depression needs to hear is that it's their own fault for being lazy. It only leads to making the problem deeper + worse, and can be a very dangerous mindset. I'd be careful to consider whether it's the right course for you too, given you report feeling exhausted and depressed. Even if so, and you see…

Actually, I just wanted to see if, on a thread about Burn-out, anyone would recognise it when they see it. Evidently, not. I'm in the fun dichotomy of knowing damned well that I'm at the end of my tether, burned-out beyond belief, and not having the time or energy to do a bloody thing about it. I work, from the moment I wake to the moment I fall asleep on my laptop, to the moment I'm woken 20 minutes later by a clien…

You're not helpless. You just think you are. Just hear me out a minute. What would happen if, the next time a client rang in the middle of the night, you just didn't pickup up the phone? What if you just walked out of the office after 8 hours on the job?

I was once in a situation similar to yours. The harder I worked, the more work got piled on me. After about two weeks, I started coming in at 8 and walking out at 4:30. Yeah, it was awkward to walk out when the rest of the team was still coding away. But a funny thing happened. I actually ended up contributing more functionality to the final project than the rest of the team combined. Why? I disciplined myself and made sure that the stuff I wrote worked the first time through, because I had set limits on my time and that set limits on the amount of rework I could do.

These aren't my values. They don't even remotely reflect who I am as a person, or who I was, at any rate, but I'm helpless to do anything about it, as someone has to do all this crap, and I'm not prepared to inflict it on any of the guys we employ, as I'd rather fuck my life up than someone else's.

First, that's a terrible attitude to have, and it ensures that you'll always be in over your head. Second, I'm willing to bet $20 that not all of that work has to get done. If you're really burning out as much as you say you are, you're not doing high quality work anyway. It'd be better to meet with the client and have some very frank discussions regarding the status of the project than deliver something that's complete on paper but only half-works in practice.

Re: Ask HN: How do you know if you're burnt out or just being lazy?

#60
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Step away, man. It seems like you can't, but trust me. Step away. If an organization rests solely on the shoulders of one man, it isn't running properly, and it needs to be fixed sooner rather than later. Step away

Aye, there's the rub. I'm desperate for us to hire someone else to at least share the devops/project management/administrative/account management burden with me, however my business partner runs the design side of things, and therefore doesn't see the problems (I never get to sleep, I don't feel like it's permissible for me to do anything but sit in the office waiting for the next crisis), just the symptoms (me being…

Sounds like utterly losing it is what you want to have happen. What do you think that will give you permission to do that you don't give yourself permission to do now?
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