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Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

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Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#52

Post by lozenge »

lostdog wrote: post #33
corrral wrote: post #21

> Take-home technical assignment (~4h) or similar at candidate's choosing If I can get a similarly-paying job at a place that doesn't do this, I'll skip you. Many seniors ( actual seniors, not 3-years-of-experience seniors) have a network and can say "hey I'm looking" and instantly have multiple options that won't have them do more than talk to the team and manager for an hour or two. If that.

It looks like the take-home replaces a full day of 1-1 interviews. That does seem reasonable (though I personally think it's the wrong trade, and the 1-1 interviews are more informative).

One - is this made clear to the candidate, two - "presentation to the team" - if the team is four people, that's four chances to be rejected from the position, which is the same as the "multiple 1-1 interviews back to back" gauntlet. Does this presentation also require preparation work?

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#55

Post by [deleted] »

throw1138 wrote: post #39
mattbee wrote: post #26

Nobody can help unless you show us your actual ads, your company site etc. There could me a million little signals that are putting people off. You've also not said what your pipeline looks like - is there nobody coming in at the top? Or are the "great people" not as great as you think? Or the "really deep knowledge of the platform" is in fact less reasonable or badly paid than you think? If you're stuck, find a good…

This is a throwaway because I'm just an engineer on the team wondering if there's something obvious we're doing wrong, and I don't imagine this would be considered desirable attention by management. Would posting a job ad on AskHN requesting feedback be acceptable? I ask because I'd have expected to see it a bunch if it were. @dang would be very appreciative of your word one way or another. Thanks mattbee.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#56

Post by mattbee »

throw1138 wrote: post #39
mattbee wrote: post #26

Nobody can help unless you show us your actual ads, your company site etc. There could me a million little signals that are putting people off. You've also not said what your pipeline looks like - is there nobody coming in at the top? Or are the "great people" not as great as you think? Or the "really deep knowledge of the platform" is in fact less reasonable or badly paid than you think? If you're stuck, find a good…

This is a throwaway because I'm just an engineer on the team wondering if there's something obvious we're doing wrong, and I don't imagine this would be considered desirable attention by management. Would posting a job ad on AskHN requesting feedback be acceptable? I ask because I'd have expected to see it a bunch if it were. @dang would be very appreciative of your word one way or another. Thanks mattbee.

Ohhhh OK.

I'd say don't post your actual ad because we will find you and give you more help than you wanted ;) Like maybe your team page is all white men, or your defence contracts are very prominent, or your CEO is a public dong.

It's a bit of a yellow flag that you don't feel you can go to your managers with this to help fix a team you're obviously invested in? But here's two tips that you might be able to implement or influence by yourself:

1) Treat incoming candidates like GOLD. Respond to them within hours, same day where at all possible. Make decisions really fast, schedule interviews within 1-2 days, drop other things to make that happen. Have future managers & engineers communicate directly, lightly backed up by HR if you have that function (and you trust them). Keep. It. Moving. Make it clear their time is more valuable than yours.

2) Document the whole interview process up-front, put it prominently on your ads, specify the damned salary, and stick to your word the whole way.

If you execute on both of these points, the FAANGs will not be able to come close in a really critical part of the process. They will be unclear about what happens next, who you're meeting, how important it is, maybe it will be a week, maybe it will be 12 weeks, who knows. But they got the prestige and the big bucks, and candidates will put up with a lot for that.

(fwiw, I co-designed careers.bytemark.co.uk/full-process for most of the above reasons, and my current role went from introductory chat->3 interviews->contract signed in about 10 days flat - I like fast recruitment!).

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#57

Post by jghn »

corrral wrote: post #21

> Take-home technical assignment (~4h) or similar at candidate's choosing If I can get a similarly-paying job at a place that doesn't do this, I'll skip you. Many seniors ( actual seniors, not 3-years-of-experience seniors) have a network and can say "hey I'm looking" and instantly have multiple options that won't have them do more than talk to the team and manager for an hour or two. If that.

Even when I'm not looking I'm always willing to followup on the latter sort of interview opportunities. You never know and they're pain free for everyone involved. The value to both parties having each other vetted by a trusted third party is huge.

I'd only do the standard style interview if I was desperate for a job.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#58

Post by TheMerovingian »

corrral wrote: post #21

> Take-home technical assignment (~4h) or similar at candidate's choosing If I can get a similarly-paying job at a place that doesn't do this, I'll skip you. Many seniors ( actual seniors, not 3-years-of-experience seniors) have a network and can say "hey I'm looking" and instantly have multiple options that won't have them do more than talk to the team and manager for an hour or two. If that.

Agreed. If you give out take-home tests, they shouldn't take longer than an hour.

Unless, you pay them for the time. A few companies I applied to 6-7 months ago offered this. However, if you're on unemployment benefits, this may count as income.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#59

Post by mr_gibbins »

corrral wrote: post #21

> Take-home technical assignment (~4h) or similar at candidate's choosing If I can get a similarly-paying job at a place that doesn't do this, I'll skip you. Many seniors ( actual seniors, not 3-years-of-experience seniors) have a network and can say "hey I'm looking" and instantly have multiple options that won't have them do more than talk to the team and manager for an hour or two. If that.

Absolutely agree. People with 10+ years, a good network and decent resume pop their head up above the parapet and get instantly mobbed with offers. They're on the market 2 weeks, tops.

No-one good is going to do a takehome just so the hiring team can rub their beards and feel superior while they pick over the code. That approach worked a few years ago, in today's recruitment bear market you don't pick the candidates, the candidates will pick you.

We are having precisely the same trouble as you by the way - junior-heavy, but experienced folk are extremely thin on the ground, and we go from CV to offer within a week. One chap joined (for a few days) and left because he had started somewhere else at the same time - they won out. We're moving to 1-stage interviews, offer on the same day. Higher risk but we have no choice.

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