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Ask HN: I did not get pay rise – as only person in team. Should I quit?

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Re: Ask HN: I did not get pay rise – as only person in team. Should I quit?

#51

Post by dudul »

So many red flags in here.

First, the CEO is an idiot for publicly saying that. This is most likely alienating 20% of the company.

Second, pushing back on stupid ideas is good, but being aggressive and offensive is not. Knowing how to rally people is a critical skill to master. You can be the best technical dev in the world, if you behave like a dick and nobody wants to work with you you won't get far.

Stop working during weekends. All you're doing is normalizing what should be very exceptional.

Finally, the fact that you can't talk to your boss about it is really messed up. It is a clear signal that you need to GTFO.

Re: Ask HN: I did not get pay rise – as only person in team. Should I quit?

#52

Post by peteradio »

joshstrange wrote: post #31
nicoburns wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You should never quit until you have another offer in hand. Assuming you don't want some time out in between jobs of course.

Of course! I just meant don't quit out of spite ever. It's always better to keep plodding along at your current job (income, health insurance, etc) until you find an alternative. Whatever spike of adrenaline/endorphins you get in that moment will not be worth it in the long run.

Thats been seriously untrue for myself. I found myself in a job that was a complete joke while also pounding me with off the wall expectations changing at every turn. How could you possibly plod through an environment like that while maintaining the energy to take on the second job of finding a job. I wouldn't say I quit out of spite, I quit out of severe disillusionment, so perhaps your advice is not qualified to apply in that case. But the general advice to quit a job when you have an offer in hand may be good for most but bad for some in particular circumstances. I would say don't dig yourself deeper into whatever hole you may find yourself, if that means you gotta stick out a job because you have no other runway well then do that. But taking time off from working for the economy doesn't mean its a net loss for yourself in the long run, it can free up resources to pursue more lucrative options, especially true when the knowledge worker is unyoked from all the cognitive demands of their day job.

Everyone, please fully qualify your advice.

Re: Ask HN: I did not get pay rise – as only person in team. Should I quit?

#53

Post by z3c0 »

xydinesh wrote: post #30
z3c0 wrote: post #14

Do not quit, but do start interviewing. Once you get a better offer in hand, present it to your boss. If they refuse to match (or outbid) for you, then take the competing offer.

I'm not sure if I agree with this approach. I would say ask for a raise without showing you have an offer from another company. If they don't then leave. I feel like it is awkward to show them that you have offer and then stay. But It could be just me.

Personally, I don't care if they feel awkward, nor do I care to be perceived as loyal in matters of business. The awkward exchange wouldn't need to happen if they ensured that they're employees felt taken care of. You shouldn't feel accountable for that.

Re: Ask HN: I did not get pay rise – as only person in team. Should I quit?

#55

Post by mrwh »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #21

> and I'm very offensive when it comes to handling projects Offensive as in aggressive? or offensive as in rude? the latter will only hinder you. You can have a no-nonsense attitude without being annoying. > no "thank you" for working in weekends for example stop working weekends if you aren't getting paid for it

Proactive, rude, driven, suffer-no-fools, fast, unsustainable, etc. There's a lot that "offensive" could mean. I must admit, I'd look askance at anyone I work with describing their approach as "offensive".

Re: Ask HN: I did not get pay rise – as only person in team. Should I quit?

#56

Post by joshstrange »

peteradio wrote: post #52
joshstrange wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course! I just meant don't quit out of spite ever. It's always better to keep plodding along at your current job (income, health insurance, etc) until you find an alternative. Whatever spike of adrenaline/endorphins you get in that moment will not be worth it in the long run.

Thats been seriously untrue for myself. I found myself in a job that was a complete joke while also pounding me with off the wall expectations changing at every turn. How could you possibly plod through an environment like that while maintaining the energy to take on the second job of finding a job. I wouldn't say I quit out of spite, I quit out of severe disillusionment, so perhaps your advice is not qualified to ap…

> I just meant don't quit out of spite ever.

I don't think your situation is "spite", if you are stuck in a toxic environment that is doing more damage to you than the good (pay/insurance) then by all means quit. It's the "I'll show them!", "They can't handle this without me", twist of the knife that some people build up in their heads that I'm arguing against. In your case I'm guessing you didn't quit the same day you thought about quitting? It took a few days/weeks? I'm just trying to advise against acting hastily or in anger. Think it through and make sure you know the consequences before you do something that "feels good"/righteous.

Re: Ask HN: I did not get pay rise – as only person in team. Should I quit?

#57

Post by mikkergp »

1. I've worked with very few people who are smart enough to criticize ideas as "stupid" and the fact that you're in the position you're in suggests you're not one of them. And that's fine! 99.99% of us aren't and I'm not one of them. But there's lots of reasons that people come up with ideas that are different than yours. Maybe they have a different context and are optimizing for different things. Maybe they're less experienced. Maybe they don't think over-optimizing in that case is worth while. Maybe they are stupid! But if you can't communicate with them about that and either get to a better place, you may not be that valuable. Which brings me to point 2.

2. I've worked with very few people who's individual contributions are great enough that it exceeds their contribution/output if they were a technical lead mentoring other engineers. It does happen, people who build libraries and frameworks and solve intractable problems for the business can be great IC-IC's. But it's not most of us. So if you're constantly having non-productive conflict with other engineers, you may be undermining your own productivity, and your value in the eyes of your management.

I guess there's two factors. If you think you can make more somewhere else, go somewhere else. Or if you think you might be fired, time to start looking.

That all being said. I'd love to dig deeper into the fact that you seem value emotional support from your boss, but seem to admit to denying that to your peers.

Re: Ask HN: I did not get pay rise – as only person in team. Should I quit?

#58

Post by bluGill »

It can take years to find a job that is better, but you should polish your resume and start looking. In some cases you should tell your boss that you find the last raise offensive and you so you are forced to start looking - they may have options. But in others talking about it will put you first on the lay-off list before you find a new job, and this in turn may force you to accept a job you don't like as much just because you need some income. (even in countries with a safety net you probably like a nicer lifestyle than the safety net will allow)

The important part is once this starts happening nothing will change until enough people - not just you - force the issue by leaving for someplace that treats you better.

You have indicated an awareness that are are not always perfect. I have no idea how bad you are, there are some people that the company would be better off if they left, and the company has decided you are such a person. Maybe you need to reform yourself? I cannot answer that other than to point out everyone has room for improvement.

Re: Ask HN: I did not get pay rise – as only person in team. Should I quit?

#59

Post by nicoburns »

corrral wrote: post #45
nicoburns wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You should never quit until you have another offer in hand. Assuming you don't want some time out in between jobs of course.

All bets are off if you have even minimal "fuck you" money, of course. Most people don't, though. They can't go long without a job, and having a gap on their résumé is scary (for good reason—if you need a job, anything that might make getting the next one a little harder isn't good).

> having a gap on their résumé is scary

I always hear this, but nobody has ever questioned me when I said I took a few months just because I could and wanted some time off.

Re: Ask HN: I did not get pay rise – as only person in team. Should I quit?

#60

Post by bmk44 »

Sounds to me like your abrasive attitude and deficiency in soft skills may have strained your relationships with your boss and coworkers. Improving your interpersonal skills will be very beneficial to you in the long term, even if it does not salvage your current situation.

If I were you, I would just start searching for a new job and make a conscious effort to be easier to work with in your next job. No one likes having to work with jerks, no matter how technically skilled or brilliant they may be. I'm not saying you are a jerk but it sounds like others may see you that way.

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