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Ask HN: Cloudflare broke my domain's DNSSEC making it unreachable since 4 days

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Re: Ask HN: Cloudflare broke my domain's DNSSEC making it unreachable since 4 days

#51
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should still protect against MITM attacks even with read-only websites - not all attacks are based on stealing user input.

What's the threat model here?

Your ISP inserts random javascript and pop-ups into HTTP sites to tell you that you're nearing your data cap and that you should go buy an additional-data-pack.

Like Airtel used to (still does?) in India.

Re: Ask HN: Cloudflare broke my domain's DNSSEC making it unreachable since 4 days

#52
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a site reliability perspective HTTPS is still broken. Some 15yo OS can't access any site because it doesn't have the certificates or cipher suites. And as you mentioned we need to update certs, webservers and DNS all the time to keep up to date. We only put up with it because it protects users from from snoopers. But that means we live in an inadequate equilibrium. If we abolished mass surveillance rather than i…

HTTPS is indeed broken when viewing it from a site reliability perspective. Anyone who has maintained more than a handful of domains simultaneously will agree (personally I’ve managed hundreds, each with their own certificate … it’s an awful experience).

Awful in what sense though? I also maintain many domains and have not touched them in years since their initial setup, with LetsEncrypt (and the Certbot renewal timer).

Re: Ask HN: Cloudflare broke my domain's DNSSEC making it unreachable since 4 days

#53
post #45
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It like https. A lot of people in the past viewed HTTPS as a terrible idea that just broke things, and every example where someone had their website go down because of broken certificates or mixed content was proof that https as a concept was broken. Usually people brought up x.509 or revocation lists as the definitive proof that https would never be common.

Eh, except that HTTPS actually has tangible benefits, unlike DNSSEC.

Much of the Internet right now uses DNS as proof of authentication. Having authentication system be a plain text protocol without any integrity or validation is a recipe for abuse. Right now the work-around is to have multiple resolver spread out all over the world and query the name servers multiple times to detect malicious actors, which is a much worse solution that dnssec if you ask me. It doesn't scale well and is a hack on top of an insecure protocol in order to create a sense of security.

We could return back to IPsec, or tunnel everything under https as a more modern version of IPsec, but those solutions are all disliked depending on who you ask.

Re: Ask HN: Cloudflare broke my domain's DNSSEC making it unreachable since 4 days

#54
DNSSEC is notorious for breaking things [1]. I use it on most of my domains, but I would not just 'enable' it on a domain that I cared about and that had real users without a lot of thought and planning. Nor should you.

[1] - https://ianix.com/pub/dnssec-outages.html

Re: Ask HN: Cloudflare broke my domain's DNSSEC making it unreachable since 4 days

#55
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the info, I'll keep it in mind for eventual future transfers. But shouldn't I be able to disable DNSSEC regardless, instead of the domain being stuck in limbo and hijacked by what appears to be a deadlock type of bug?

Disabling DNSSEC doesn't propagate instantly. Have you queried the CF nameservers for the domain directly? In my experience everything involving DNSSEC requires a 24h wait (unless the domain hasn't been queried from anywhere - but that's usually not the case, something might have triggered distributed DNS lookups e.g. LE doing DNS validation for cert issuance etc).

CF's authorative servers ("hasslo" and "crystal") respond correctly when queried directly, but that doesn't really help the situation.

Re: Ask HN: Cloudflare broke my domain's DNSSEC making it unreachable since 4 days

#56
post #25
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think criminals care about the law?

Criminals are much less likely to engage in MITM attacks, besides TLAs it's usually shady ISPs who want to inject some content (similar to surveillance that could be made illegal too, ISPs would in fact care). And criminals also have little incentive to attack read-only sites. Even if they did it might be more efficient to allocate resources to law enforcement rather than securing everything that could theoretically…

>Criminals are much less likely to engage in MITM attacks

Can you provide a source, or even just reasoning, to why this would be true? In my experience, MiTM is a common enough attack vector used by criminals.

Re: Ask HN: Cloudflare broke my domain's DNSSEC making it unreachable since 4 days

#57
post #25
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think criminals care about the law?

Criminals are much less likely to engage in MITM attacks, besides TLAs it's usually shady ISPs who want to inject some content (similar to surveillance that could be made illegal too, ISPs would in fact care). And criminals also have little incentive to attack read-only sites. Even if they did it might be more efficient to allocate resources to law enforcement rather than securing everything that could theoretically…

Wordpress begs to differ. There are tons of examples of malicious JS on read only sites. Doesn’t have to be MitM. Usually it’s to generate ad views on another site, but can be more nefarious.

Re: Ask HN: Cloudflare broke my domain's DNSSEC making it unreachable since 4 days

#58
post #54

DNSSEC is notorious for breaking things [1]. I use it on most of my domains, but I would not just 'enable' it on a domain that I cared about and that had real users without a lot of thought and planning. Nor should you. [1] - https://ianix.com/pub/dnssec-outages.html

I figured it would work since there were no problems for the handful of my domains using DNSSEC with the previous registrar. Maybe the button should come with a warning label. I'll certainly be a bit cautious from now on.
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