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Ask HN: Why was it hard to criticize Freedom Fries hysteria while it lasted?

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Re: Ask HN: Why was it hard to criticize Freedom Fries hysteria while it lasted?

#51

Post by mcphage »

adhesive_wombat wrote: post #25

I noticed something very similar with the whole Brexit process. At the beginning, in 2016, it was made very clear by the Leavers that it was unthinkable that the UK would end up outside the single market and without a free trade deal with the EU. "No Deal Brexit" was called a scaremongering fiction and was promptly dubbed "Project Fear". Once May invoked Article 50 in early 2017, it became clear that the softest Brex…

Not being in the UK, I was surprised that the referendum was specified as being non-binding, but once the vote happened, politicians spoke as if they had a moral obligation to implement the result. Which seemed ludicrous, given the final result was 52%/48%—and who know what it would have been had the referendum been specified as binding beforehand. I'd certainly vote differently on quite a few measures if I knew the result was supposed to matter.

Re: Ask HN: Why was it hard to criticize Freedom Fries hysteria while it lasted?

#52

Post by grandmczeb »

valbaca wrote: post #47

"Freedom fries" was always considered a joke and I never heard anyone ever use it except with dripping sarcasm. Everyone knew it was a joke from the very beginning. It also occurred when it was clear that with the emotions of 9/11 passed, that we had no real reason to invade Iraq other than a very loose set of connections and assumptions with very little hard evidence. I was in high school at the time of the Iraq war…

This is how I remember it too. “Freedom Fries” and stunts like pouring French wine down the drain were widely seen as stupid.

https://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/08/nyregion/strained-relatio...

https://www.cc.com/video/9os75w/the-daily-show-with-jon-stew...

Re: Ask HN: Why was it hard to criticize Freedom Fries hysteria while it lasted?

#53

Post by rvieira »

adhesive_wombat wrote: post #25

I noticed something very similar with the whole Brexit process. At the beginning, in 2016, it was made very clear by the Leavers that it was unthinkable that the UK would end up outside the single market and without a free trade deal with the EU. "No Deal Brexit" was called a scaremongering fiction and was promptly dubbed "Project Fear". Once May invoked Article 50 in early 2017, it became clear that the softest Brex…

Related to Brexit (but more with the "Freedom fries" angle) Morrisons tried to rename "Brussel sprouts" to "Yorkshire sprouts"[0].

[0] - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/morrisons-br...

Re: Ask HN: Why was it hard to criticize Freedom Fries hysteria while it lasted?

#54

Post by Imnimo »

During WW1, there was apparently some amount of effort to rename sauerkraut "liberty cabbage" to avoid the German association. My understanding is that this was at least in part driven by a worry from cabbage producers that the public would have a negative reaction to a German-named product. Thus, it may be that in some cases, the causality is reversed - it's not that products are renamed to stoke anti-X sentiment, but rather that anti-X sentiment makes it necessary to rename products. Obviously that was not the case with "freedom fries", though.

Re: Ask HN: Why was it hard to criticize Freedom Fries hysteria while it lasted?

#55

Post by spacemanmatt »

rflec028 wrote: post #46
spacemanmatt wrote: post #42

Corona beer took a PR hit when the pandemic started. That's beer. Not a bottle of virus. But people are not superficially logical.

I heard that sales went up! Might be neat to look into that.

Hah! I had not followed the story since maybe a year ago but it wouldn't surprise me if they got their drinkers back.

Re: Ask HN: Why was it hard to criticize Freedom Fries hysteria while it lasted?

#56

Post by mytailorisrich »

valbaca wrote: post #47

"Freedom fries" was always considered a joke and I never heard anyone ever use it except with dripping sarcasm. Everyone knew it was a joke from the very beginning. It also occurred when it was clear that with the emotions of 9/11 passed, that we had no real reason to invade Iraq other than a very loose set of connections and assumptions with very little hard evidence. I was in high school at the time of the Iraq war…

This was not a joke. Certainly not for the people who actually renamed French fries to freedom fries. This was offensive and, frankly, racist.

The guy who started it all: "In an interview about the name change, Rowland commented, "since the French are backing down [from the war], French fries and French everything needs to be banned." [1]

I can tell you that some American commentators at the time were criticising the French position not to support the war in a way that pretty much "cheese-eating surrender monkeys" level.

> other than a very loose set of connections and assumptions with very little hard evidence.

They knew they had no 'evidence'. The US government had decided to invade Iraq and this was all faked in order to establish a pretext with the public, additionally taking advantage of the post 9/11 context. This is all documented.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_fries

Re: Ask HN: Why was it hard to criticize Freedom Fries hysteria while it lasted?

#57

Post by seanmcdirmid »

valbaca wrote: post #47

"Freedom fries" was always considered a joke and I never heard anyone ever use it except with dripping sarcasm. Everyone knew it was a joke from the very beginning. It also occurred when it was clear that with the emotions of 9/11 passed, that we had no real reason to invade Iraq other than a very loose set of connections and assumptions with very little hard evidence. I was in high school at the time of the Iraq war…

Ya, I never remember freedom fries being anything but a joke, but then again most of us are leftward leaning (I assume) and have never lived in conservative places (like small town Texas) where those terms were taken seriously.

Support for the war in Iraq was never really there (but again, from my perspective as a leftward leaning individual living in a relatively liberal area).

Re: Ask HN: Why was it hard to criticize Freedom Fries hysteria while it lasted?

#58

Post by seanmcdirmid »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #56
valbaca wrote: post #47

"Freedom fries" was always considered a joke and I never heard anyone ever use it except with dripping sarcasm. Everyone knew it was a joke from the very beginning. It also occurred when it was clear that with the emotions of 9/11 passed, that we had no real reason to invade Iraq other than a very loose set of connections and assumptions with very little hard evidence. I was in high school at the time of the Iraq war…

This was not a joke. Certainly not for the people who actually renamed French fries to freedom fries. This was offensive and, frankly, racist. The guy who started it all: " In an interview about the name change, Rowland commented, "since the French are backing down [from the war], French fries and French everything needs to be banned. " [1] I can tell you that some American commentators at the time were criticising t…

> "cheese-eating surrender monkeys"

Any phrases that came directly from the Simpsons can definitely be considered intended as jokes and parody (if not in very good taste, but this was before the Family Guy took tasteless even further).

Re: Ask HN: Why was it hard to criticize Freedom Fries hysteria while it lasted?

#59

Post by mytailorisrich »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #58
mytailorisrich wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was not a joke. Certainly not for the people who actually renamed French fries to freedom fries. This was offensive and, frankly, racist. The guy who started it all: " In an interview about the name change, Rowland commented, "since the French are backing down [from the war], French fries and French everything needs to be banned. " [1] I can tell you that some American commentators at the time were criticising t…

> "cheese-eating surrender monkeys" Any phrases that came directly from the Simpsons can definitely be considered intended as jokes and parody (if not in very good taste, but this was before the Family Guy took tasteless even further).

Racism is not a joke and not banter. Maybe you are too young to remember what I'm referring to in my previous comment. There definitely was racist French-bashing from some.

It's denying reality to claim that "freedom fries" were a joke. It was not a joke for those who started it and spread it.

The Simpsons are a satire but what they satirize is what some people really do and think. I only used the term from the Simpsons to say that this was really the level of some commentators, not as evidence. This was very clear. (would be more interesting to discuss the point than the Simpsons)

Re: Ask HN: Why was it hard to criticize Freedom Fries hysteria while it lasted?

#60

Post by valbaca »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #57
valbaca wrote: post #47

"Freedom fries" was always considered a joke and I never heard anyone ever use it except with dripping sarcasm. Everyone knew it was a joke from the very beginning. It also occurred when it was clear that with the emotions of 9/11 passed, that we had no real reason to invade Iraq other than a very loose set of connections and assumptions with very little hard evidence. I was in high school at the time of the Iraq war…

Ya, I never remember freedom fries being anything but a joke, but then again most of us are leftward leaning (I assume) and have never lived in conservative places (like small town Texas) where those terms were taken seriously. Support for the war in Iraq was never really there (but again, from my perspective as a leftward leaning individual living in a relatively liberal area).

I lived in a small town in Texas (2nd Most Conservative city in the nation) and everyone across both aisles thought it was a joke.

Granted, yes, I'm also a leftist.

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