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Ask HN: What real world problem does cryptocurrency solve?

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Re: Ask HN: What real world problem does cryptocurrency solve?

#51
I've been very skeptical, but recently come around on my position. There are a lot of abstract ideas on why crypto is a good thing (permissionless, decentralized, censorship resistant, anonymity etc etc), but I personally wouldn't bet against it for the sole reason that it massively increases developer and innovation velocity. It is financial infrastructure where innovation can happen at a fast and almost uninhibited pace. It's the path of least resistance for engineers that want to build financial products. Moving "value" at the *core* layer of infrastructure has never been this easy.

Whether you like it or not, financial infrastructure powers our world (chicken nuggets wouldn't be possible without hedge funds, all large corporations eventually pivot into financial services etc), so having a network where innovation of this infrastructure and the products built on top can happen at a faster pace is incredibly compelling. It's a matter of time before most of the new and compelling products and services show up in crypto before TradFi (because easier they're easier to build there), which will in turn onboard more users into the ecosystem.

Re: Ask HN: What real world problem does cryptocurrency solve?

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And for 2 they can just take other assets in lieu and/or stick you in jail for non-compliance.

> And for 2 they can just take other assets in lieu. Assuming you have any other or the bulk of your net worth is not stored as crypto.

Well then you just get it taken when you use it to buy things and get thrown in jail for not complying with a court order.

I mean this is already a silly scenario where you’ve got married to someone you have an intensely adversarial relationship with and tried to hide all your assets by making them unusable.

Re: Ask HN: What real world problem does cryptocurrency solve?

#54
I have been noodling on this for a bit and this is just trying to get some thoughts out:

The base fundamental use case is this: We (humanity) need a digital native currency. If I can web / email / interact with pretty much any human on the planet, over a commonly owned and shared infrastructure using openly developed protocols and software, why can't I send / receive money from them too?

Pretty much every other use case I have heard is a subset of this

- my government stops me from doing X (X being reasonable from our nice Western point of view like avoiding currency controls, or unreasonable like buying heroin from the supplier) - I am unbanked (similar to government stops me ...) - Why should the world pay a Visa tax?

1. there is a difference between "permissioned" and "permissionless" crypto. Roughly speaking permissioned crypto is where some trusted third party (Bank of England, ECB, the Fed) gets involved in creating the crypto-currency and being the validation point to prevent double spending.

The double spending thing is the issue - it is the core of what makes all this difficult. If A spends with B and tries to double spend with C you need some public ledger that says A has already spent with B so C is out of luck. The easy way is A and B post the transaction on the Fed's website and the Fed just takes whoever comes in first. The hard way is to say we don't trust the Fed and have a clever way of agreeing what posts are "true" - blockchain, mining etc etc.

2. Ok - so we now just invent a working permissioned crypto-dollar. Surely this is all good? Well maybe - the basic use case is really important - we want to spend money as easily as sending email - but :

a. Deposits are a big thing. if I can hold crypto-dollars on my phone and send them to Jeff Bezos with no marginal cost or intermediary then why do I have a bank account? Why deposit my salary into my bank? And if I do not deposit my salary into my bank then the wikipedia article on fractional reserve banking goes all funny.

If deposits go out the window, all sorts of second and third order consequences hit.

- If no deposits, then no lending via the banks. and so no monetary supply expansion. Monetary supply expansion in fact needs to be explicit at the permissioned base.

- we could try having banks produce their own currency "under" the Fed but the history of that is total disaster

(it's worth nothing that the history of bitcoin is roughly a fast forwarding of 200+ years of bank failures and fraud that lead to the current state of regulation. Crypto is a wild west that needs a marshal.)

- Yes we can "trick" everyone into holding their currency in a wallet that routes through a bank account, but most banks will fuck that up in the initial implementation and even so people are stupid, especially for bank accounts that charge - and will simply leave quickly .

These sort of consequences of a working crypto-currency were what was being talked about in 2009/10/11 - the downfall of fiat currency etc. Before lots of people found that the number just go up - and speculation (and money laundering / currency control avoidance) became the basis of bitcoin.

References: https://blog.dshr.org/2022/02/ee380-talk.html?m=1

Re: Ask HN: What real world problem does cryptocurrency solve?

#55
post #16

- The currency of my country is collapsing, I need to buy something which has a value unconnected to my country. - My country imposes export controls on foreign currency. I want to move my money out of my country. - I am unbanked and want to buy a good or service on the internet. - I do not trust the counterparty that I am dealing with on the internet. Using cryptocurrency means that my maximum loss is the vavlu of t…

PayPal for b2b transactions, Transferwise and similar services for cheaper remittance transfers. Crypto takes electronic payments and adds an ungodly layer of complexity to them.

If you are no in the first-world country then you can forget about PayPal, Transferwise etc. Crypto at least gives an option, otherwise you often don't have any.

Re: Ask HN: What real world problem does cryptocurrency solve?

#56
post #16

- The currency of my country is collapsing, I need to buy something which has a value unconnected to my country. - My country imposes export controls on foreign currency. I want to move my money out of my country. - I am unbanked and want to buy a good or service on the internet. - I do not trust the counterparty that I am dealing with on the internet. Using cryptocurrency means that my maximum loss is the vavlu of t…

So to summarize, it is useful for variously exfiltrating money out of a country, laundering, and for people who are savvy enough to use crypto but not sensible enough to have a bank account.

The point about currency collapse is interesting to me, because (like almost all crypto apologist points) it assumes you already have a bunch of it/made a bunch of money on it before the bad thing happens. Everyone else gets to suck eggs, as the saying goes.

Of course if everyone in the hypothetical country had crypto, it would cause the crypto to collapse as well…

Re: Ask HN: What real world problem does cryptocurrency solve?

#57
post #16

- The currency of my country is collapsing, I need to buy something which has a value unconnected to my country. - My country imposes export controls on foreign currency. I want to move my money out of my country. - I am unbanked and want to buy a good or service on the internet. - I do not trust the counterparty that I am dealing with on the internet. Using cryptocurrency means that my maximum loss is the vavlu of t…

- I want nobody to be able to get my money unless I choose so or somebody tortures me, therefore I want to be able do die with my money by not releasing the private keys.

Re: Ask HN: What real world problem does cryptocurrency solve?

#58

Early(ish) adopter here(circa 2013): initially it was a way for nerds who didn’t have street connections to buy drugs. Then it morphed into the biggest, most decentralized multi-level marketing speculative asset class in the history of the world. The narrative behind crypto reminds me a lot of gold bugs who rave on and on and on about how defective the existing fiat monetary system is , in hopes to push up the fiat p…

Not to forget the hard core Libertarians and Anarcho-Capitalist... I seemingly remember them being quite a big crowd involved. And ofc the get rich people, as early adopters being trillionaires when whole world adopts bitcoin. While bitcoin also being good for the poor in future...

Re: Ask HN: What real world problem does cryptocurrency solve?

#59
post #37

Scott Alexander recently ran a grants program ( https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/so-you-want-to-run-a-m... ) and wrote this about the experience: > Then you have to actually give people money. > > You know how, whenever there’s a debate about cryptocurrency, some crypto fanboy gushes about how it makes sending money so much easier? And if you’re like me, you think “yes, but right now you can just enter a number…

Crypto has its own charges, i.e. Eth GAS Fees[0]

[0] - https://www.coindesk.com/learn/what-are-ethereum-gas-fees/

Re: Ask HN: What real world problem does cryptocurrency solve?

#60
post #37

Scott Alexander recently ran a grants program ( https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/so-you-want-to-run-a-m... ) and wrote this about the experience: > Then you have to actually give people money. > > You know how, whenever there’s a debate about cryptocurrency, some crypto fanboy gushes about how it makes sending money so much easier? And if you’re like me, you think “yes, but right now you can just enter a number…

It seems the core of this is that Paypal charges 3% and alternatives like banks don't work because either they are not allowed to transfer that much money or the recipient does not have an account.

Regarding the transfer cap, I really don't understand this. Is that a cap on personal transfers?

Regarding Paypal price, let me ask this: Is the 3% Paypal asks required costs o working with fiat currencies? NO.

Then that is that? That is the price Paypal asks for using their product. Is a price on a free market.

So how will this happen in the crypto space?

Will everybody know how to do transfer with crypto? Or will there appear some products that might charge a fee to facilitate the transfer? And if they will appear what stops them to add 3% fee?

If the answer is everybody will know how to keep a personal wallet and do transfers then the answer is probably wrong. People (outside our small IT bubble) don't want to learn complicated technologies so a nice product with a good UX might appear that will do what PayPal did for credit cards transfers and they will find a way to charge their users.

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