Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Neurodiversity/ADHD Friendly Companies

news.ycombinator.com

51–60 of 224 posts

Re: Ask HN: Neurodiversity/ADHD Friendly Companies

#51
Good luck. I’d have to consider whether or not a company that used it as an actual hiring criteria was doing me a favor, though.

First, in the US, I’m not exactly sure it would be legal. We have the ADA, which basically states that we shouldn’t use what are considered “disabilities,” as a negative. Not sure what it says for positive.

I’m not sure about the EU, but, from my experience, European nations tend to have even stricter rules than the US.

In my case, my own neurodiversity has been a real asset. It’s made me an excellent programmer, and has certainly been key to my basic success.

I was a manager, for 25 years. That’s fairly unusual for aspies, as “people skills” are not often our strong suit.

Which brings me to the work environment. If the company has a management career path that includes promoting aspies into management, it may be great, as I think that it’s important that managers have empathy for their employees, but it might also be a difficult place to work, as we don’t always make the best managers (I feel as if I was an exception, but there were some “out of band” factors in my personal development, that probably made a huge difference –but that’s a story for another day).

The other possibility, is that the managers are all neurotypical, which makes me wonder about the career path.

In my experience, I started at my last company, on the same exact day, as another engineer, who was almost Central Casting for “aspie coder” (I’m a bit “dorky,” but it’s not as obvious, for me). We worked together for 27 years, until they finally closed down our department. For most of that time, I was his boss.

I have no problem admitting that he’s a far better coder and tactician than I ever was, but I have my doubts that he would have been as good a manager. On the other hand, I was pretty much a perfect manager for him, and he thrived in the department. He is now working for a well-known European megacorp, and I hope that they give him the space he needs to work. He’s an amazing engineer, and it was an honor to work with him.

Re: Ask HN: Neurodiversity/ADHD Friendly Companies

#52

I'm not diagnosed with ADHD myself, in fact today is my first day of ADHD eval by a doctor. What you write is exactly how experience work. One thing that came to mind is contract/freelance work. Go to a contracting agancy and tell them you want to work on 3-6 month contracts. I'm currently in the process of doing this. I hope few things come out of this. 1) my brain stays engaged 2) my happniess increases 3) my savin…

This sounds like a pretty good strategy for me too. I'm completely ignorant about consulting agencies though - I assume there good ones, bad ones, etc? Can anyone recommend ones in the UK?

Re: Ask HN: Neurodiversity/ADHD Friendly Companies

#53
About 20% of our team has ADHD and are thriving. We found this out when trying to do some internal usability testing on our UI. We don't explicitly target being ADHD friendly, but actively endeavor to be a good employer for all sorts of neurodiversity. We view people as individuals and manage and allocate tasks with awareness of each person's strengths. We're hiring for people to work on our UI as well as our compiler, scheduler, and hardware device drivers. If you're interested, send me an email at halie at radix.bio. I can say that we're extremely good at keeping people from getting bored since we have more interesting problems than time.

Re: Ask HN: Neurodiversity/ADHD Friendly Companies

#54

I wonder why ADHD gets singled out so much. If I look at the suggestions that would help people with ADHD, then I see suggestions that would help lots of people. Eg. not being reprimanded for being late when it has no consequences would help everyone. Good calendar software also helps everyone. There are lots of people who are struggling with the demands of the workplace -- in fact, I'm not sure I know anyone who doe…

ADHD brains are physically incapable of doing these things without assistance on a neurological/biochemical level.

It's not much different to elevators being pretty convenient for everyone, but an absolute necessity to the wheelchair-bound.

Edit: better fitting analogy.

Re: Ask HN: Neurodiversity/ADHD Friendly Companies

#55

Sorry not fully related to your question, but I've been asked a couple times in the past whether I've got ADHD because I'm constantly humming or tapping my desk while I multi task on 4 things, or when its time to work on new projects I just go 100% beast for a day or few days, getting a lot done, and then just crashing (sometimes for a whole week) because I can't focus on anything. Do I just ask a doctor to test me?…

I'd suggest having a look at the self screening tool on adhduk, which gives you an indication of whether you have adhd symptoms. If so, it might make sense to pursue a formal evaluation and diagnosis.

The tool's been put together with the WHO:

https://adhduk.co.uk/adult-adhd-screening-survey/

Re: Ask HN: Neurodiversity/ADHD Friendly Companies

#56
It’s worth everyone knowing that there is a high proportion of neurodiverse people in our industry, relative to other industries and the general population.

The 2021 Stack Overflow Survey [0] puts ADHD at 8.51% (double the rate in the US [1]), and autism at 3.7% (about 1% globally [2]).

The point here is that, you all already work with people who have ADHD or are autistic. If your company isn’t doing right to retain us, your going to lose talent to those who do.

Small accommodations can go a very long way. Accomodations are personal, not everyone needs the same thing.

For example, I start my day at 10am. Easily managed accommodation, and now I get significantly better sleep. Everyone wins.

OP, I’d love to call out specific companies that are good at this, but I don’t really know.

[0] stackoverflow.com/survey/2021#section-demographics-m [1] https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/attention-deficit... [2] https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/data.html

Re: Ask HN: Neurodiversity/ADHD Friendly Companies

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's quite interesting, but I believe that procrastination and burnout are rather obvious signs of ADHD and if you experience this you should verify this. I'm a huge mental health advocate and I've been such for years (I worked with a lot of psychiatrists and psychologists when doing deep interpersonal training for business purposes and I built a lot of trust toward field) and I've been working constantly with therap…

> It's quite interesting, but I believe that procrastination and burnout are rather obvious signs of ADHD and if you experience this you should verify this. My guess is that procrastination and burnout are signs that work in our society is just not a good fit for our mental needs (see also immense popularity of video games, which provide "fake work" that is closer to what we need). I suspect there were no procrastina…

Couldn't agree more. I don't see it as a reflection of my own mental state or mental health at all, just as a reflection of the fact that it's time to start looking for a new job.

I think that it is quite common for software engineers to have a feeling of being badly attuned to their work environments and then misattribute that as a problem that lies within themselves rather than their work environments.

I even feel that some management practices common to our field are basically a form of psychological abuse, akin to gaslighting, which provide to the employee a false reality where everything that goes wrong is their own fault. For example yearly reviews and institutionalized continuous feedback cultures tend to create a lot of salience around what an employee is doing wrong and should do differently in the eyes of management, while seldom allowing any iota of attention to fall on questions about what the company is doing wrong and should do differently in the eyes of the employee.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if this was something that ended up actually causing mental disorders in employees. This is pure speculation, but our field does have very poor stats on mental health [1]. A competing explanation is that our field is attractive to people with pre-existing problems and therefore draws in people with mental disorder, rather than creating mental disorder. Or maybe it's a combination of both.

[1] https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2021#section-demog...

Re: Ask HN: Neurodiversity/ADHD Friendly Companies

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's quite interesting, but I believe that procrastination and burnout are rather obvious signs of ADHD and if you experience this you should verify this. I'm a huge mental health advocate and I've been such for years (I worked with a lot of psychiatrists and psychologists when doing deep interpersonal training for business purposes and I built a lot of trust toward field) and I've been working constantly with therap…

> It's quite interesting, but I believe that procrastination and burnout are rather obvious signs of ADHD and if you experience this you should verify this. My guess is that procrastination and burnout are signs that work in our society is just not a good fit for our mental needs (see also immense popularity of video games, which provide "fake work" that is closer to what we need). I suspect there were no procrastina…

> see also immense popularity of video games, which provide "fake work" that is closer to what we need

Or sports, or hobbies in general.

Re: Ask HN: Neurodiversity/ADHD Friendly Companies

#59
Every time someone tells me they have ADHD and suggest they should take some measures to accommodate it, I think of this Slate Star Codex post: https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/12/28/adderall-risks-much-mo...

It's about Adderall (a popular medicine for ADHD), but the beginning of the article has a great discussion on the nature of ADHD.

Re: Ask HN: Neurodiversity/ADHD Friendly Companies

#60
Sorry, this is in German: https://m.faz.net/aktuell/karriere-hochschule/buero-co/merhe...

71% of study participants don’t like their jobs. I will not write my opinion about ADHD, but most of the jobs are boring soul sucking time waste. Think about school - there were some good teachers, that liked what they did and the majority that just did their job. HN crowd obviously had good math and computer science and maybe physics or chemistry teachers.

I am your age and probably with ADHD too. But at this age you should know yourself and the tricks to overcome the deficits. My job is tragical. I am writing stupid shift registers in VHDL (that’s 2nd year homework at the university), but would like to design FPGA accelerators for high performance computing or day trading or machine learning. But the life isn’t pony yard. I can very well imagine HR making fun about the psychopaths they hired for their neurodiversity program. I know, it’s harsh and not pleasant, but I have heard a lot at this age already.

My advice: take some time, learn to know yourself better, especially how to overcome roadblocks and try act normal. Even if it means to play together with bored unhappy crowd.

Post reply on HN