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Ask HN: What are the downsides of working at FAANG?

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Re: Ask HN: What are the downsides of working at FAANG?

#51
post #9

Leetcoding is certainly a big one. Having to jump through performative interview hoops is a tough pill to swallow for experienced folks. Took me many years to put my feelings aside and recognize it as the current normal. Otherwise, plenty of reasons, many dependent on specific companies. Some examples based on both first-hand knowledge and hearing from others: Facebook/Meta - tough performance culture, bad work-life…

I’ve gone through multiple interview processes with apple and never dealt with leet code.

Interviews at google seemed 50/50 split leet code (or interviewer showing off being clever) and reasonable questions.

I recall thinking that my MS interview questions seemed perfectly reasonable, but that was too long ago for me to recall specifics.

As a someone who has been the interviewer I think that people really don’t understand what whiteboard interviews are doing, and a number of claimed “leet code” questions are not. Part of it is that if you’re interviewing at Apple or MS knowing basic algorithms and complexity analysis is important because working at those companies you will be the one implementing such things so other developers don’t have to.

A lot of what people are calling leet code on HN, Reddit, etc are what I would consider foundational knowledge, not anything crazy.

Re: Ask HN: What are the downsides of working at FAANG?

#52

For me, it's 2 big reasons. 1) Dealing with climbing the corporate ladder, covering your ass from backstabbers, and all sorts of company politics are bad enough to deal with in fairly small companies where you might have a handful of business relationships to deal with, let alone in mega-corporations where you might be working in one small project department with dozens and dozens of people and several layers of mana…

The mere fact that you’re calling it anti-whiteness and anti-maleness indicates that you’re not a person I would want to work with.

You need to provide examples to back up your claims. Examples that aren’t simply “company is trying to recover from its historically racist and sexist recruitment policies”

Re: Ask HN: What are the downsides of working at FAANG?

#53
Having worked at two FAANGs I feel a lot of these comments are being made by people who haven’t worked at them, and are more just saying things that go with “big business”.

Politics: present at all companies, big and small. My wife worked at multiple startups and the politics and behavior were vastly worse than she experienced anywhere else outside of academia.

Bureaucracy: this is kind of true, but good management tries to minimize it. Across multiple roles that only real bureaucratic problems I ever had were disclosures, and generally they either happened immediately or I didn’t actually need them. Some bureaucracy that you definitely get at bigger companies is HR related, but oftentimes that’s because small companies don’t have dedicated HR. That can lead to serious problems of it’s own.

Impact: far too team specific, certainly at a smaller company you have the potential to have a greater impact on the business itself, but you also have a lower probably of having impact outside of the businesss.

Work/life balance: outside of crunch periods I never had any work/life balance issues. Those are much bigger issues at small companies and startups. Generally what I see is that when people come into a FAANG straight out of college they still have the college “100% work all the time” mentality. They also don’t have experience in actually releasing software: it takes time to learn to actually realize that not everything is “must ship critical”. It took me a few years to get to “this bug does not actually impact users, so it is ok to punt to a follow on release”

The big thing to note is that politics and similar is a /much/ bigger issue outside of engineering: program management and organizational management tend to have an element of “we have to fight about who gets resources”. But again IME the FAANGs I’ve worked at have many more systems in place to limit that. When it goes wrong is when you have politics at high levels in the organisation: VPs, etc. Geberally though in IC positions you’re insulated from that by distance - but at smaller companies that distance is reduced and becomes sad.

Re: Ask HN: What are the downsides of working at FAANG?

#54
post #52

For me, it's 2 big reasons. 1) Dealing with climbing the corporate ladder, covering your ass from backstabbers, and all sorts of company politics are bad enough to deal with in fairly small companies where you might have a handful of business relationships to deal with, let alone in mega-corporations where you might be working in one small project department with dozens and dozens of people and several layers of mana…

The mere fact that you’re calling it anti-whiteness and anti-maleness indicates that you’re not a person I would want to work with. You need to provide examples to back up your claims. Examples that aren’t simply “company is trying to recover from its historically racist and sexist recruitment policies”

Perhaps the mistake here is thinking that you have the privilege to demand something of someone online.

Re: Ask HN: What are the downsides of working at FAANG?

#55
post #9

Leetcoding is certainly a big one. Having to jump through performative interview hoops is a tough pill to swallow for experienced folks. Took me many years to put my feelings aside and recognize it as the current normal. Otherwise, plenty of reasons, many dependent on specific companies. Some examples based on both first-hand knowledge and hearing from others: Facebook/Meta - tough performance culture, bad work-life…

> Leetcoding is certainly a big one. Having to jump through performative interview hoops is a tough pill to swallow for experienced folks. Took me many years to put my feelings aside and recognize it as the current normal.

If you're applying to, say, Google, you do this once then have a very well-paid job for life (theoretically). That, to me, is a good trade-off.

Re: Ask HN: What are the downsides of working at FAANG?

#56
post #11

My relatives work at Amazon and Netflix. None of them have time for anything other than work. The culture at those places seems unbelievably toxic. I am the same age as them, make more money, live in a more pleasant place (i.e. not an overpriced West Coast city), and have a lot more free time and freedom. I did this by working at (or starting) boring lifestyle software companies that sell for $10-100M.

> I am the same age as them, make more money, live in a more pleasant place (i.e. not an overpriced West Coast city), and have a lot more free time and freedom.

What is your job? What is this "pleasant place?" How much more money are you actually making?

Re: Ask HN: What are the downsides of working at FAANG?

#57
post #37

The big money there attracts creeps and backstabbers. Many weasel their way in with modest qualifications and a lot of bluster and maybe some leetcode, then they bully people and jockey for position once in. Lots of taking credit for what others did and aiming for the big office. Worked at Apple from the early days of the NeXT merger until OS X came out. Toward the end security guards razzed me for swearing at the se…

> bloodthirsty cutthroat competition under florescent lights and security guards treating you like freaky garbage

Just work remotely.

Re: Ask HN: What are the downsides of working at FAANG?

#58
I worked at Google over 2 stints - pretty successfully (L3->L5 in 2.5 years). My general frustration was always that I wanted to do 'more' and have greater influence over product direction. I also worked for Amazon, briefly.

Pros: If you join the right team at the beginning, you can be on a rocketship and have 'exciting engaging work' (subjective)

Cons: It's not all 'talented developers solving hard problems'. As you level up, there's a ton of politics and excessive, unnecessary complexity caused by throwing as many eager, highly-paid engineers on problems with incentives optimizing for individual production.

Most successful Google projects are directly tied to 1 or more promotions for the key contributors of the project. Google's internal economy runs on perf - there's a lot of fixation of position and authority, particularly as you get L5+. L3->L5, you can largely ignore politics / crank out working systems and be successful.

If you are an early engineer on a team (even as an L3), it's not too hard to become and expert (especially if you front-load by working excessive hours early in your career).

Flip-side, you can be extremely talented (in one way or another) and be put on a team and projects that emotionally drain you and make you question your purpose in life.

I've talked to a lot of Googlers who are just as frustrated with their almost 'lavish' 6-figure silicon valley jobs and end up quitting. The causes are mixed - mostly politics, unnecessary complex, or the nature of the work (often monotonous or frustrating - mostly due to the nature of google3), commutes (less of an issue now), wanting more e2e ownership, more 'work satisfaction'.

If you want to do the most engaging work of your life where you learn the most - you're generally probably better off with newer teams/projects/systems - e.g. at a startup. A few years on almost any system and you'll be an expert - as long as the system lasts that long.

If you're looking for a comfortable, high-paying tech job - FAANG can be nice, but you need to make sure you enter onto the right team with the right expectations all around.

p.s.: shameless plug: I'm now building (early stage) a 'web3 game server' on Solana: solanagameserver.com. #tardigrades

Re: Ask HN: What are the downsides of working at FAANG?

#59
post #3

It is very competitive to get a job at one of these companies. I have applied to Netflix multiple times but to date they have not replied even to reject me (only "application received"). Since applying to Netflix, I was hired at Cameo as a senior software engineer, and then Disney as a Senior Software Engineer/Tech Lead. It seems like I wasn't good enough to even get an interview at Netflix. But once you do get an in…

> It seems like I wasn't good enough to even get an interview at Netflix.

It's more about "who you know" than you might realize.

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