Ask HN: What if a new generation of developers is right about Web3? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: What if a new generation of developers is right about Web3?

#51

Post by thebean11 » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 2:10 AM UTC

DougN7 wrote: post #48

thebean11 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The value of nativeness combined with a totally neutral execution environment is that money can be directly controlled by software, with no practical human override. Suddenly the cost and risk of transactions goes down, as I don’t need to worry about whether I will get paid, or whether the intermediary actually handling the money will arbitrarily decide to freeze my account. Obviously this is a double edged sword; ha…

I’m in my 50’s and not getting paid or having account get frozen has never happened to me during my entire life, and is not something I’m concerned about. If would be cool if defi was solving an actual problem most people have, but I’m still not seeing it.

1. It’s actually pretty common, my PayPal account is frozen for no reason, I would need to send passport scans to unlock it which I won’t do.

2. We aren’t necessarily the target market. Think more large investment / B2B transactions not consumer payments.

Re: Ask HN: What if a new generation of developers is right about Web3?

#52

Post by bccdee » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 2:19 AM UTC

thebean11 wrote: post #41

bccdee wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AWS does not have any trouble moving money around or writing programs to move money around. Finance has been digitized for ages. You might say "those are just digital abstractions — this is native. " But so what? What does it matter if my money transfer routine talks to a bank or broadcasts a new block? It does the same thing in the end, except that the blockchain version is slower and more expensive. Blockchain offe…

The value of nativeness combined with a totally neutral execution environment is that money can be directly controlled by software, with no practical human override. Suddenly the cost and risk of transactions goes down, as I don’t need to worry about whether I will get paid, or whether the intermediary actually handling the money will arbitrarily decide to freeze my account. Obviously this is a double edged sword; ha…

> When you make a bank transfer or a PayPal transaction, it’s 100% opaque. The terms are not truly binding and it can be reverted or altered for any or no reason.

Yeah, they can tell that to my lawyer. Banks don't make the rules — regulators do, and I can file suit to have a judge enforce those rules. If my money disappears, I can hold my bank to account.

But a judge can't rewrite the blockchain, so cryptocurrency has become a safe haven for fraud. You've got it exactly backwards: It's blockchain-based banking that puts customers at risk of predation.

> I find it pretty surprising how many people can’t or won’t understand the value of a neutral execution environment for financial transactions

If it had value for banks, banks would be using it. If it has value for customers, then tell me: As a customer, which desirable guarantees does blockchain provide me that banking regulations don't?

Re: Ask HN: What if a new generation of developers is right about Web3?

#53

Post by pritambaral » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 11:28 AM UTC

labrador wrote: post #46

pritambaral wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... contempt prior to investigation ... Are you implying that HN hasn't already "investigated" what you're asking? > ... you can't even brainstorm about it here. Looks like you're implying HN hasn't already "brainstormed" / thought about what you're asking. > Hacker News is unbelievably closed minded ... Consider this instead: you asked a question that has been debated many, many times over — to the point of nearly…

You make some good points. I gave an emotional response. My emotions come from frustration. I spend a fair amount of time on Hacker News and really love the site, but I'm upset that Hacker News is overwhelming negative, focusing on current technology shortcomings. You say the topic has been debated. I say it hasn't. It's been roundly rejected. That's not debate. My post was an attempt, probably a lame one, to expand…

> I gave an emotional response.

Neither your topic nor this place suit emotional debates.

> I'm upset that Hacker News is overwhelming negative ...

Perhaps you should set your emotional upset aside and consider why, instead of blindly rejecting all of HN because of how HN's rejection makes you feel.

> ... focusing on current technology shortcomings

There is a lot of that here, yes, but that has not been the sole "focus" of HN commenters on this topic. I find it easy to ignore and dismiss comments that focus solely on this , and still participate in discussions involving other aspects. Perhaps you should too.

> You say the topic has been debated. I say it hasn't.

I have participated in the debates, rationally (i.e., without emotions). I say you haven't.

> It's been roundly rejected. That's not debate.

I disagree that it's been roundly rejected, but even assuming so (for the sake of this point): a debate does not require "both sides" to win some votes. Unanimous rejection after consideration is a valid result of debates.

----

> ... When asked why he said "with all this shit, there's got to be a pony around here!"

Nice story. But there's only so far you can stretch a simple analogy. Trust me, in the history of technology, there's often just "shit", no pony. And as more people keep entering this world, more shit keep getting produced and thrown around. In fact, it is ridiculous how easy it is to produce large quantities of it.

> ... with all this shit, there's got to be a pony around here!

Could it be a donkey instead?

Re: Ask HN: What if a new generation of developers is right about Web3?

#54

Post by StewardMcOy » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 7:34 PM UTC

labrador wrote: post #50

StewardMcOy wrote: post #40

Given your use of the phrase "the plebes who are getting ripped off" in a comment, I suspect your sympathies aren't really with the unbanked and the lower classes, but I will nevertheless try to give an answer as if the question was asked in good faith. No one can really predict the future, but if I had to put money down on it, I would bet that if Web3 attains its technological goals, it will not attain its social go…

> I suspect your sympathies aren't really with the unbanked and the lower classes I guess it wasn't clear I am from a working class background, although I mentioned my father not being able to get a loan, which got down voted in negative territory for some weird reason By plebe I meant the insufferable working class dudes I grew up with who are anti intellectual and tend towards bullying those around them with their…

> By plebe I meant the insufferable working class dudes I grew up with who are anti intellectual and tend towards bullying those around them with their muscle mass.

I know the kind of guy who you're talking about, but I've never heard the term pleb used to describe them. In my experience, the term pleb is used by the well-connected, upper-class jerks (and those who want to be like them) to deride anyone in the middle class or lower. It doesn't describe behavior, only social class.

I did see that you said you had come from the working class, but the use of the word "plebe", combined with posting on HN, signaled to me that you now earn enough money to no longer be considered part of the working class, and now saw yourself above them, or were fabricating your background.

If you did not mean to deride the working class with that comment, then I apologize for the misunderstanding.

Re: Ask HN: What if a new generation of developers is right about Web3?

#55

Post by doomleika » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 10:12 AM UTC

If you are an CS engineer you should be able to call out BS after a few hours reading the "web3" materials.

From what I've seem over past two month it's all about deregulated money, nothing to do w/ decentralization/trustless/demarcation, it's much worse.

Is it a one-in-a-decade career chance? Absolutely, scam unsuspecting plebs, rug dumb coiner/NFTs, be an exchange and be rich, write a mixer/tumbler and laundering blood money. As long as you know when to jump before the heat is too much.

Just...don't lie to yourself. Same stuff, different flavors, world is not going to be a better place because of you, actually, quite the opposite.(Same applies to traditional corps)