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Ask HN: Are there paid commenters on HN?

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51–60 of 60 posts

Re: Ask HN: Are there paid commenters on HN?

#51
post #44

Paid by whom? There are companies and employees on HN posting, commenting and promoting their business and services, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Is someone paying to get upvoted? Almost certainly, but I doubt it's worth a lot here where the sorting algorithm is much more opaque than Reddit. On Reddit getting to the top is just a numbers game. Also, even though there's far too much political posts…

The political posts on here are amazing though. You get well thought out arguments from both sides. The only downside is the down voting/silencing of people’s opinions when the masses at HN don’t agree. The down vote feature should be disabled, let the responses/post chain do the judging.

> The political posts on here are amazing though

I haven't said they're bad. I just personally don't enjoy politics with my hacker news.

Agreed on the downvotes, I could do without them.

Re: Ask HN: Are there paid commenters on HN?

#54
post #53

Shameless self promotion: if you pay me $5 for short comments, $10 for medium comments and $50 on well thought comments I can comment on HN.

Is this a bannable offense?

What if you, for pay, write your own opinion - that you otherwise wouldn't have bothered to write (due to lack of time, interest etc)?

Re: Ask HN: Are there paid commenters on HN?

#56

There has been an obvious influx of paid accounts in my opinion. The quality of discourse has dropped. I often check an account and notice it was not active for a substantial period of time before a sudden change in tone is noticed. Seeing the same anti-vax talking points (for instance) spread from Reddit to here has been upsetting. The main difference I have noticed is the responses here are more sound technically,…

Internet users tend to interpret comments they don't like as "paid accounts", bots, shills, spies, astroturfers, foreign agents, brigaders, and sundry other sinister manipulators. This is one of the biggest psychological mechanisms on the internet, so commonplace that the site guidelines specifically ask people not to do it: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. No doubt there's something hard-wired in us that makes us jump from displeasure to suspicion.

That's not, of course, to say that abuse doesn't happen. It's simply to say that when considering abuse, we need to look for actual evidence. It's impossible to evaluate vague general claims. We need to see specific links. For example:

> I often check an account and notice it was not active for a substantial period of time before a sudden change in tone is noticed.

As the site guidelines ask, you should send us specific links so we can look into them. Such perceptions usually turn out toe be rife with assumptions and projections, but occasionally we find evidence of abuse, and when we do, we crack down hard on it. The vast majority of it that we've seen is small-scale commercial abuse, though—voting rings, commenting rings, and various types of spam.

When it comes to disagreement on hot political/social topics, we all need to get used to the fact that society at large (indeed the world at large, since HN is a highly international site) is a lot more divided than we would like, and stop resorting to cartoonish Boris-and-Natasha explanations to explain away the unwanted facts that (a) a lot of people sincerely and strongly disagree, and (b) everyone has good reasons for their views, even when they're wrong or we feel they are.

I wrote a long post about this here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27398725. Note that all these arguments are limited to HN. Larger sites have different problems to deal with.

Even if you assume that there are Sufficiently Smart Manipulators [1] planting carefully crafted comments in undetectable ways, the conclusion that leads to is pretty much the same as what the site guidelines call for anyway: we should respond to bad arguments and false claims by patiently and respectfully providing better arguments and true information. If a community can do that, then hostile pathogens aren't going to kill it—and if it can't do that, then it's going to self-destruct anyhow. In either case, hostile pathogens aren't a fundamental cause, and the solution is to focus on and strengthen our own responses. The only viable long-run answer to the Sufficiently Smart Manipulator is the Healthy-Enough Community.

[1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

Re: Ask HN: Are there paid commenters on HN?

#57

I've seen what look like classic Russian+Chinese troll farm talking points & argument tactics. NLP can flag this, but without accompanying metadata for basic digital forensics, confidence is too hard for that vs a regular troll. If into this sort of analytics, we are always looking for data engineers and data scientists for Project Domino - see our DefCon AIV keynote for more info.

Hah negative votes on this, so to expand a bit:

Most HN responses are thoughtful and reflect some background. Timezones vary, but are self-consistent. Similarly, different people gravitate to different topics. But when a reply is on a talking point associated with state misinfo and written in a misinfo/troll style (short, lies, unfalsifiable, red herring, pushes asymetric work to the other person, ...), I check to see if from an account mostly only making non-technical comments, time zone range, and other surprises. Unfortunately, no public way to do IP/browser-level correlation for account reuse and other common forensics.

While such an account is unlikely to be a programmed bot, human troll farm employees are paid to do exactly this sort of campaign. NLP is great for catching funny behaviors and talking points, but without the forensic info, generally too hard to increase confidence. NLP on a message is like an alert, and NLP on the message history can tell you if someone acts like a troll, but metadata forensics are still typically needed to get proof points for saying it's a troll-farm-style troll. (Then again, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's enough of a duck for many community leaders to treat it like a duck.)

If HN's trust and safety team prioritized this stuff, they should have the needed metadata already, and the forensic analytics patterns are pretty established nowadays - you don't need to pay FB's $1B/yr on it. I'm sure they do some of it already in addition to the human moderation. Project Domino is all about building open AI so others can do the same without the high budget.

Re: Ask HN: Are there paid commenters on HN?

#58
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, who would pay people for pushing anti-vax talking points?

I'm pretty curious about the possible motives as well, but there is some evidence it was happening even before 2020: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/anti-vax-movement-russian-troll... (May 2019)

Interesting. Seems to rely on the "botometer" API, which I haven't heard good things about.

Re: Ask HN: Are there paid commenters on HN?

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, who would pay people for pushing anti-vax talking points?

I think these are mostly political interests like "weakening the western economic" or "divide western liberal societies" and maybe a few richer people who had a bad experience with vaccs and think they do something good. Actually comment trolls cost near nothing when hired in India or russia. And they scale by infecting some other people with the same thought, who themselfes comment then in similar ways. Often "they"…

Wendler was paid for his anti-vaxx stance? Is there a source for that?

Re: Ask HN: Are there paid commenters on HN?

#60

I don't know, but I don't really read the comments here any more. A while ago the comments were the gold, now I can't really get them. In my subjective experience, contradictory comments (to the post) became the most popular. That doesn't make sense. You can't contradict always to anything. So HN became like any other new site: I'm skimming through the headlines in a minute, and done.

Have you found anywhere better? Or even anywhere that is just more enjoyable for you personally?

Not really. Lobsters is nother HN-like site but with much less activity
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