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Ask HN: for senior positions is it advisable to list side projects on your CV?

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Re: Ask HN: for senior positions is it advisable to list side projects on your CV?

#51

Post by simonw »

journey_16162 wrote: post #48
deregulateMed wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone with kids and side projects, I have doubts about "not having time". I could do 2 hours of productivity after the kids go to sleep and I'd still have 2 hours for entertainment. I exercise too. So let's make it even more reasonable. How about 30 minutes, 4 times a week? >Meaningful progress So then do an hour or 2? I make progress in 30 minutes and sometimes keep going. If the point is for a resume, you coul…

I work on something which will either be a side project for CV or a small business if I'm lucky - in either case most of the work at the time relates to development. On a typical week I put 30 - 40h into it (I don't work full time so I can afford it) and it still goes so damn slow. And the project is not anything crazy, just a standard Electron desktop app. I can hardly imagine how someone could build anything at 2h/…

The trick is to cheat: Pick side projects which you know you can make substantial progress on in a small amount of time given your unique set of skills and experiences.

Re: Ask HN: for senior positions is it advisable to list side projects on your CV?

#52

Post by Tade0 »

Recruiters are mostly interested in the things other people paid you to do - because it shows that it's safe to pay you as well.

I list such things as "web presence" along with my GitHub account, "technical blog"(heavy quotes here) and LinkedIn profile. I think only that last one ever gets clicked on.

Large companies especially don't care about such things, because they need you to fill a highly specific role, not one that would make use of the broad skillset required to release your own product.

Re: Ask HN: for senior positions is it advisable to list side projects on your CV?

#53

Post by deregulateMed »

simonw wrote: post #51
journey_16162 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work on something which will either be a side project for CV or a small business if I'm lucky - in either case most of the work at the time relates to development. On a typical week I put 30 - 40h into it (I don't work full time so I can afford it) and it still goes so damn slow. And the project is not anything crazy, just a standard Electron desktop app. I can hardly imagine how someone could build anything at 2h/…

The trick is to cheat: Pick side projects which you know you can make substantial progress on in a small amount of time given your unique set of skills and experiences.

I can either build a consumer friendly embedded project, or I can build one that I need to recompile when it's time to change settings.

Both count for the interview purposes.

Re: Ask HN: for senior positions is it advisable to list side projects on your CV?

#54

Post by deregulateMed »

sha256kira wrote: post #45
deregulateMed wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone with kids and side projects, I have doubts about "not having time". I could do 2 hours of productivity after the kids go to sleep and I'd still have 2 hours for entertainment. I exercise too. So let's make it even more reasonable. How about 30 minutes, 4 times a week? >Meaningful progress So then do an hour or 2? I make progress in 30 minutes and sometimes keep going. If the point is for a resume, you coul…

I do find that I have time for side projects even with my wife and I working full time with a one year old but some / most weeks I feel like Im going to drop dead and that is in part because I find myself with little time for exercise and other self care. I just think its worth regurgitating the adage that every child really is different and so is every tech job. My friends that end up working till 9pm and on weekend…

I should put an astrik that this is only feasible when working 40 hours a week.

Beyond that and the burnout is real.

Re: Ask HN: for senior positions is it advisable to list side projects on your CV?

#55

Post by mxuribe »

CodeGlitch wrote: post #47

The best bang for buck would be to spend your spare time gaining a certification, for example Java, CompTIA, AWS, Azure, etc. This IMHO is far better on your CV then a side-project, as it shows a willingness to perform continued learning. Your side project could be using tools and techniques that you learnt decades ago, which could be fine but my org is only interested in cutting-edge stuff (for example).

> ...Your side project could be using tools and techniques that you learnt decades ago, which could be fine but my org is only interested in cutting-edge stuff...

Or, perhaps the inverse could be the case, where i learned cutting-edge stuff for my side project, but at enterprise, sorry, they're only using legacy Java (for example), so can't really use my cutting edge experience, etc. Now, as far as certs, i agree that they should help get through the door, but wonder if pairing them with discussions about experiences gained on a side project - to play with the knowledge learned from said certs - would be an even better combo? If i was hiring, and saw that a person got some certs (and maybe checks some needed box), but also has interests in side project, again, for the experience of it...then that is well above average for sure (at least in my eyes).

Re: Ask HN: for senior positions is it advisable to list side projects on your CV?

#56

Post by Osiris »

dannyw wrote: post #43
majewsky wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate your sentiment. At the same time, looking at side projects runs the risk of discriminating against qualified candidates who don't have time for side projects because of other commitments (e.g. childcare or care for elderly relatives) or who choose to pursue non-IT hobbies to keep a work-life balance. How do you avoid treating such candidates unfairly?

If I am trying to hire someone into my team, I want to make use of all relevant and appropriate signals that can help me make a better decision. I consider side projects to be an appropriate and often valuable signal. While it is unfortunate that side projects have some selection bias against those who are time-poor, it also feels wrong to me to discriminate against people who can demonstrate their skills and impress…

I am not an ideas guy. Give me a project and I'll build it. Ask me what I'd like to build and I'll have no idea.

In 15 years I've had 1 side project. I'm a staff engineer.

Re: Ask HN: for senior positions is it advisable to list side projects on your CV?

#57

Post by Osiris »

deregulateMed wrote: post #37
majewsky wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate your sentiment. At the same time, looking at side projects runs the risk of discriminating against qualified candidates who don't have time for side projects because of other commitments (e.g. childcare or care for elderly relatives) or who choose to pursue non-IT hobbies to keep a work-life balance. How do you avoid treating such candidates unfairly?

As someone with kids and side projects, I have doubts about "not having time". I could do 2 hours of productivity after the kids go to sleep and I'd still have 2 hours for entertainment. I exercise too. So let's make it even more reasonable. How about 30 minutes, 4 times a week? >Meaningful progress So then do an hour or 2? I make progress in 30 minutes and sometimes keep going. If the point is for a resume, you coul…

You're right that it's not always about time. Some people, like me, are just idea poor. Or, our brains are so overworked from the day we can't concentrate at 10pm at night enough to do anything coherent.

Re: Ask HN: for senior positions is it advisable to list side projects on your CV?

#58

Post by deregulateMed »

fernandotakai wrote: post #38
deregulateMed wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone with kids and side projects, I have doubts about "not having time". I could do 2 hours of productivity after the kids go to sleep and I'd still have 2 hours for entertainment. I exercise too. So let's make it even more reasonable. How about 30 minutes, 4 times a week? >Meaningful progress So then do an hour or 2? I make progress in 30 minutes and sometimes keep going. If the point is for a resume, you coul…

it's not that i don't have time -- i do have time. but i don't want to write code as side projects anymore. i much rather do something else. play a videogame, read a book, watch series. i already work 8~10h a day, after that, i want chill and think about something else that is not code.

Sure. The parent claimed there wasn't time.

Btw have you considered something drastically different than your current code? Embedded comes to mind, it's half electrical engineering and lots of instant gratification.

But in general, nonfiction books could help you ace an interview. I wowd some people by merely talking taoist philosophy and how despite having diverse skills, there's something to be said about sticking to your role.

Re: Ask HN: for senior positions is it advisable to list side projects on your CV?

#59

Post by Jenk »

majewsky wrote: post #31
Jenk wrote: post #21

I always ask candidates if they have anything to show off. I am _always_ more interested in what people do as a side project than I am of what they have done professionally. Hyperbole time but I think it conveys the message: People do side projects for better reaons than they do professionally. At worst it's because they want to quickly learn/achieve something for their next job. Compared to professional experience,…

I appreciate your sentiment. At the same time, looking at side projects runs the risk of discriminating against qualified candidates who don't have time for side projects because of other commitments (e.g. childcare or care for elderly relatives) or who choose to pursue non-IT hobbies to keep a work-life balance. How do you avoid treating such candidates unfairly?

Yes that's one of the many caveats. I myself have zero time for side projects due to family etc. so I am fully sympathetic.

And side projects are side projects. I was fascinated by a candidate's beer brewing project (there are some very relatable skills in management and organisation, supply chain dependencies, etc) as one example of a non-tech side project.

Re: Ask HN: for senior positions is it advisable to list side projects on your CV?

#60

Post by dannyw »

Osiris wrote: post #56
dannyw wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I am trying to hire someone into my team, I want to make use of all relevant and appropriate signals that can help me make a better decision. I consider side projects to be an appropriate and often valuable signal. While it is unfortunate that side projects have some selection bias against those who are time-poor, it also feels wrong to me to discriminate against people who can demonstrate their skills and impress…

I am not an ideas guy. Give me a project and I'll build it. Ask me what I'd like to build and I'll have no idea. In 15 years I've had 1 side project. I'm a staff engineer.

That's fine and great. I never consider side projects to be a requirement, and I believe they never should be.

It's just an additional piece of signal that may help a candidate when relevant; the same way doing great during the interview can help a candidate.

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