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Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2019?

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Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2019?

#51

Post by Agathos »

babaganoosh89 wrote: post #19
henning wrote: post #13

Cons: - Startups are disorganized - Most startups fail because they make a stupid product no one wants and the team is awful - Startups pay below what a large company can afford and often pay below market rate - Startups will try to low ball you on equity. Don't start with me about negotiating. If they refuse to negotiate, you have your choice of no meaningful equity or working somewhere else. This is often the case.…

What do you have against ping pong?

It's noisy and distracting when it's taking place ten feet away from your open plan workspace.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2019?

#52

Post by mlthoughts2018 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #46
mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not that start-ups don’t pay as well as Google, it’s that they don’t pay as well as mid-range companies, like insurance companies, payroll tech companies, auto manufacturers, newspapers, etc. Start-ups are just other businesses. The relevant pool of peer companies to consider for salary benchmarking is all other companies your desired candidate might work for . Nobody cares about the funding situation, age, cool…

Yes, exactly! I don’t care about your mission or your “key values”. What’s the comp? What are the benefits? That’s it.

The other big problem is that start-ups will sweet talk you regarding freedom to choose tooling, getting greater responsibility, etc., but none of that is enforceable and subject to change on a whim.

You’ll go in believing you traded off some salary in order to get freedom or seniority you wouldn’t get at a traditional company, but it’s just a big lie. “Flexibility” will quickly give way to a bastardized “wear many hats” failure mode where you are being grinded into a burnout by supporting a bunch of shitty tooling with no capacity to hire people to handle the workload. You’ll quickly find that growth start-ups == nobody gives a shit about craft or even basic maintenance to keep a product healthy, they just want a small number of overqualified, underpaid people to absorb that headache on a permanent triage basis like employees are band-aids to constantly stop the bleeding.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2019?

#53

Post by 2plates »

badfrog wrote: post #33
Hydraulix989 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bunch of possible reasons: - A lot of people don't know what they are actually worth and undervalue themselves - or they do not understand the caveats of things like dilution and classes of stock - or they were offered stock in units of shares without knowing the valuation - or they accept a job and relocate to the Bay Area from a reasonably-affordable place and mistakenly think that a $100k/year salary is hitting…

> or they didn't realize just how much more FAANG actually pays than late-stage startups or even other top-tier companies (even Glassdoor is wrong) This is true for a lot of people I talk to. It seems very odd that there's not more compensation transparency from these companies, because I know several people who would have jointed FAANG if they knew what they'd be making 3-5 years into their career.

I had a roommate that was frustrated by a startup who left for Google. Once I heard him talking numbers I was shocked! Also using Blind (of all places) for comp data was eye opening.

Ultimately though you have to find out for yourself. For me, I found out I was leaving $90k/year on the table. I love startups, but I don’t know if I love them that much.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2019?

#54

Post by roddy237 »

henning wrote: post #13

Cons: - Startups are disorganized - Most startups fail because they make a stupid product no one wants and the team is awful - Startups pay below what a large company can afford and often pay below market rate - Startups will try to low ball you on equity. Don't start with me about negotiating. If they refuse to negotiate, you have your choice of no meaningful equity or working somewhere else. This is often the case.…

[dead]

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2019?

#55

Post by sametmax »

mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #39
sametmax wrote: post #24

Start ups will give a chance to junior with a weak resume if he/she can demonstrate skills. You may very well end up with a mission above your skill set as well, and grow because of the challenge and responsability. Less bureaucracy and smaller size also mean a quicker hiring process, direct access to most interesting people in the company and a wide overview of the entire product.

Usually this is false. Startups are some of the most aggressive users of whiteboard trivia, live coding, etc., to filter out candidates who don’t fit precisely the mold of people desperate to work at FAANG companies.

That seems to fit exactly what I said:

> Start ups will give a chance to junior with a weak resume if he/she can demonstrate skills.

They don't hire you on a resume, you need to demonstrate skills. Wether it's a good way to do so is another matter.

I had interviews with startup not even asking for my resume, or testing my skills. But I never had a startup getting me through many hoops in the hiring process. 4 steps over a few months was the max, while FAANGs are known for using more than 10 steps, dispatched over as long as a year.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2019?

#56

Post by badfrog »

mikeheaton wrote: post #49
badfrog wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> or they didn't realize just how much more FAANG actually pays than late-stage startups or even other top-tier companies (even Glassdoor is wrong) This is true for a lot of people I talk to. It seems very odd that there's not more compensation transparency from these companies, because I know several people who would have jointed FAANG if they knew what they'd be making 3-5 years into their career.

I’m curious, how much is it then?

For FB/Google:

L3: ~$165k

L4: ~$225k

L5: ~$335k

L6: ~$450k

I think Amazon is a little less and Netflix is a little more.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2019?

#57

Post by xiphias2 »

2plates wrote: post #53
badfrog wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> or they didn't realize just how much more FAANG actually pays than late-stage startups or even other top-tier companies (even Glassdoor is wrong) This is true for a lot of people I talk to. It seems very odd that there's not more compensation transparency from these companies, because I know several people who would have jointed FAANG if they knew what they'd be making 3-5 years into their career.

I had a roommate that was frustrated by a startup who left for Google. Once I heard him talking numbers I was shocked! Also using Blind (of all places) for comp data was eye opening. Ultimately though you have to find out for yourself. For me, I found out I was leaving $90k/year on the table. I love startups, but I don’t know if I love them that much.

You're leaving $90k/year with its compounding interest on the table. Trust me, $90k/year is nothing compared to what it will worth in 20 years if you invest it.

I'm 36 and my life is just getting easier every year while I see people around me working their asses off and being stressed over time.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2019?

#58

Post by freewilly1040 »

ryanbrunner wrote: post #25
jypepin wrote: post #3

My view is only a data point, but what I've observed is that while comp at startups has not evolved much in the last 5 years (seeing roughly same salaries + stock packages), total comp at later stage startups or bigger companies has sky rocketed. The comments on the 2018 post you mention are all still true and relevant today. My experience has proven than as an employee, joining a post series B will usually be a bett…

I think one thing to consider with an early stage startup is the potential to advance in terms of responsibility / role far more quickly than a large company or even a post-series B company. If you join a 20 person startup and are a good performer, it's not at all unlikely that by the time the startup is at 60-70 people (which isn't going to be a long time at all for a funded startup), there's a high likelihood that…

The rub is that many 20 person companies will never get to 70 people.

Having stagnated at a start up and grown a lot at a BigCo, I think easy career growth is really more about company growth than absolute company size. The scenario you outline still holds if the company grows from 1,000 to 2,000.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2019?

#59

Post by badfrog »

xiphias2 wrote: post #57
2plates wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a roommate that was frustrated by a startup who left for Google. Once I heard him talking numbers I was shocked! Also using Blind (of all places) for comp data was eye opening. Ultimately though you have to find out for yourself. For me, I found out I was leaving $90k/year on the table. I love startups, but I don’t know if I love them that much.

You're leaving $90k/year with its compounding interest on the table. Trust me, $90k/year is nothing compared to what it will worth in 20 years if you invest it. I'm 36 and my life is just getting easier every year while I see people around me working their asses off and being stressed over time.

Plus the opportunity to get promoted and make significantly more in a couple years.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2019?

#60

Post by toomuchtodo »

mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #52
toomuchtodo wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, exactly! I don’t care about your mission or your “key values”. What’s the comp? What are the benefits? That’s it.

The other big problem is that start-ups will sweet talk you regarding freedom to choose tooling, getting greater responsibility, etc., but none of that is enforceable and subject to change on a whim. You’ll go in believing you traded off some salary in order to get freedom or seniority you wouldn’t get at a traditional company, but it’s just a big lie. “Flexibility” will quickly give way to a bastardized “wear many h…

So true.
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