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Ask HN: I've been a programmer for 6 years, and I can't solve basic CS problems

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Re: Ask HN: I've been a programmer for 6 years, and I can't solve basic CS problems

#51

Post by cs0 »

whack wrote: post #43
cs0 wrote: post #31

Thank you to everyone who has replied to my rant. I felt of low value for not being able to provide immediate help for most of the problems that she's being taught to work on. Some of the examples (since some of you were asking for them): https://github.com/cs50/docs/blob/master/_pages/2018/x/psets... https://github.com/cs50/docs/blob/master/_pages/2018/x/psets... I realise that I may have written my original post a…

The examples you gave are very helpful in giving more context. I'm guessing that you're productive in your job, because you know the details of how to use language ABC, framework XYZ and the various patterns for solving common industry problems using ABC and XYZ. The part you seem to be weak in, is abstract problem solving. Ie, coming up with a pseudo-code algorithm that will accomplish some abstract goal that you've…

Your first paragraph hits the nail on the head. This is exactly me.

Thank you for your reply. I do intend to work further on my skills in order to get better!

Re: Ask HN: I've been a programmer for 6 years, and I can't solve basic CS problems

#52

Post by aphextron »

swatcoder wrote: post #10

Think of it this way: application development, software engineering, and computer science (and data science and ... etc) sometimes use the same tools but are all different disciplines. Universities traditionally focused on Computer Science and their graduates would often need a lot of grooming before they could really be independently and reliably productive in the commercial words of application development or softw…

>And that's okay! Inventing new algorithms with theoretical significance is not your job! You have other skills and they're of much more immediate value!

Except when it comes to getting a job. Forget any of the rest of your skills, because we all know the only thing that matters when interviewing is an ability to recite CS algorithms out of memory and solve obtuse puzzles while pretending you've never seen them.

Re: Ask HN: I've been a programmer for 6 years, and I can't solve basic CS problems

#53

Post by evancox100 »

poulsbohemian wrote: post #20
haney wrote: post #12

I heard somewhere that a computer science degree is actually a history degree in how we have solved problems in the past. Programming is a creative problem solving process, but certain problems took decades to solve and it’s only by knowing the history that people are able to resolve some of these hard problems. Don’t beat yourself up for not knowing all of history and give yourself a break for not being able to imme…

>history degree in how we have solved problems in the past. I like that, that's a cool way to think about it. I've often thought it should be called "computational" science or maybe "skills in logical problem solving." Regardless of whether one pursues a career in software, a computer science degree is really good at teaching a person how to think .

Djikstra called it "computing science"

Re: Ask HN: I've been a programmer for 6 years, and I can't solve basic CS problems

#54

Post by golergka »

cs0 wrote: post #31

Thank you to everyone who has replied to my rant. I felt of low value for not being able to provide immediate help for most of the problems that she's being taught to work on. Some of the examples (since some of you were asking for them): https://github.com/cs50/docs/blob/master/_pages/2018/x/psets... https://github.com/cs50/docs/blob/master/_pages/2018/x/psets... I realise that I may have written my original post a…

Thanks for the provided examples.

If you have been working as software engineer for five years, but can't solve that task, that indeed makes me doubt how were you hired in the first place. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh; I appreciate your honesty and I would want to support you in your self-doubt, but I consider honesty to be more valuable in such a situation than being nice.

Caesar's algorithm in particular looks like a high school assignment, to be honest.

Re: Ask HN: I've been a programmer for 6 years, and I can't solve basic CS problems

#55

Post by radlad »

aphextron wrote: post #52
swatcoder wrote: post #10

Think of it this way: application development, software engineering, and computer science (and data science and ... etc) sometimes use the same tools but are all different disciplines. Universities traditionally focused on Computer Science and their graduates would often need a lot of grooming before they could really be independently and reliably productive in the commercial words of application development or softw…

>And that's okay! Inventing new algorithms with theoretical significance is not your job! You have other skills and they're of much more immediate value! Except when it comes to getting a job. Forget any of the rest of your skills, because we all know the only thing that matters when interviewing is an ability to recite CS algorithms out of memory and solve obtuse puzzles while pretending you've never seen them.

As a self-taught programmer who doesn't have a CS degree, my experience has been that this is not a significant hurdle to any workplace that I would seriously consider applying.

Re: Ask HN: I've been a programmer for 6 years, and I can't solve basic CS problems

#56

Post by chillacy »

cs0 wrote: post #47
MBCook wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a particular part of these problems that is stumping you? Perhaps breaking them down into smaller sub-problems? Where is it something else? Based on your original description I was expecting something more heavy on straight CS theory. “how do you sort an unordered binary tree in place“ kind of thing.

I've never been so great with figuring out loops to iterate over things and the like. And some of the questions being posed (which are all expected to be solved in C) are a little tricky for me to figure out on my own without some of the niceties which I have been exposed to in higher level languages. Perhaps the hardest of these was the Credit Card Validation example. I was stuck for such a long time on trying to fi…

Can you solve these problems in your language of choice then? How can you write business logic at work without loops?

Re: Ask HN: I've been a programmer for 6 years, and I can't solve basic CS problems

#57

Post by cs0 »

golergka wrote: post #54
cs0 wrote: post #31

Thank you to everyone who has replied to my rant. I felt of low value for not being able to provide immediate help for most of the problems that she's being taught to work on. Some of the examples (since some of you were asking for them): https://github.com/cs50/docs/blob/master/_pages/2018/x/psets... https://github.com/cs50/docs/blob/master/_pages/2018/x/psets... I realise that I may have written my original post a…

Thanks for the provided examples. If you have been working as software engineer for five years, but can't solve that task, that indeed makes me doubt how were you hired in the first place. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh; I appreciate your honesty and I would want to support you in your self-doubt, but I consider honesty to be more valuable in such a situation than being nice. Caesar's algorithm in particular looks li…

Thanks for your reply.

To be honest, I'm only just able to write a program in C, which is the required language for these CS50 tasks.

I've never been asked to do this kind of work before, so I had no idea where to really start.

The walkthroughs provided in the course gave me a high level overview to the solution required, but being able to translate that pseudo-code, if you will, was the part which I was completely stuck on for a while.

I felt like I should have known at least how to start off solving this problem using prior knowledge I had gained through commercial experience, but I was wrong, and none of my experience thus far was able to guide me in the direction which ended up with an answer to the problem.

Re: Ask HN: I've been a programmer for 6 years, and I can't solve basic CS problems

#58

Post by cs0 »

chillacy wrote: post #56
cs0 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never been so great with figuring out loops to iterate over things and the like. And some of the questions being posed (which are all expected to be solved in C) are a little tricky for me to figure out on my own without some of the niceties which I have been exposed to in higher level languages. Perhaps the hardest of these was the Credit Card Validation example. I was stuck for such a long time on trying to fi…

Can you solve these problems in your language of choice then? How can you write business logic at work without loops?

I tried looking up various solutions in languages which I knew a lot better, so, and example of one of these would be Go.

The logic was there, but I still couldn't understand most of what was going on, unfortunately.

Through trial and error, I eventually managed to get something working.

>How can you write business logic at work without loops? It's not that I don't use them, it's that I have a hard time figuring out how to use them in the context of solving the problem.

Re: Ask HN: I've been a programmer for 6 years, and I can't solve basic CS problems

#59

Post by hmmk »

cs0 wrote: post #50
hmmk wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly did you have trouble with? These really are simple problems, all you need are an understanding of loops, ASCII character codes, and basic arithmetic. To be honest, I'm surprised a seasoned developer of 5+ years can't do these, or at least have a decent stab at them.

I just replied above, but I've never been amazing at being able to figure out how I should be using for loops to solve problems quickly and efficiently. I do tend to make things harder for myself, as my boss and fianceè have told me before. I usually end up with a very convoluted solution which I end up coming back to and refactoring the next day.

I'm curious, what sort of approaches do you take to your programming tasks at work? Is it more like e.g. writing SQL where you'd think more about relating sets of data rather than looping over individual items?

Re: Ask HN: I've been a programmer for 6 years, and I can't solve basic CS problems

#60

Post by Jtsummers »

cs0 wrote: post #57
golergka wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the provided examples. If you have been working as software engineer for five years, but can't solve that task, that indeed makes me doubt how were you hired in the first place. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh; I appreciate your honesty and I would want to support you in your self-doubt, but I consider honesty to be more valuable in such a situation than being nice. Caesar's algorithm in particular looks li…

Thanks for your reply. To be honest, I'm only just able to write a program in C, which is the required language for these CS50 tasks. I've never been asked to do this kind of work before, so I had no idea where to really start. The walkthroughs provided in the course gave me a high level overview to the solution required, but being able to translate that pseudo-code, if you will, was the part which I was completely s…

Have you reviewed the lectures and other course material or just jumped into the problem sets?

A thing that may help: Approach this CS50 material as if you have no knowledge of programming. Set aside your preconceptions about both your ability and the nature of programming itself (to the extent that this is possible). Review the materials and read/watch all of it, even the things that you know. You may know them, but exercise the discipline to persist through them and practice the material.

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