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Ask HN: I built it, "they" didn't come...

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Re: Ask HN: I built it, "they" didn't come...

#51
post #12

"they" usually don't come.

Well said. Very few people hit it out of the park the first time. You have to try, try, and try again, without ever having any more chance of success per given try no matter how many times you do. This is something too few have really wrapped their heads around.

Re: Ask HN: I built it, "they" didn't come...

#52
post #39

I have learnt a lot on HN over the last years. But after a point I have realized that following the actual good advices and trends will not help me, because everybody will follow those advices/trends so that I will always be competing in an oversaturated market: most likely I will fail. I've realized that I can bravely bet against at least some of the trends. Based on my built things and their failures I started to f…

Nice points!

I think enterprise is not an easy market to enter. Enterprises are very shy of giving projects to startups and also you need to spend a few years fixing enterprise problems to build good solutions.

Another problem is that companies tend to take a long time and to make a decision hence lot of time and money gets blocked in the sales process...

I am writing this based on experience. I am trying to push the model but not too successful yet!

- Rushabh

ERPNext.com

Re: Ask HN: I built it, "they" didn't come...

#53
post #2

My projects are mostly based on features that are missing or misimplemented in the existing products. This is your first problem. First, features do not sell software . If there were a Ten Commandments of customer acquisition in the Internet age that would be #2 right after "Google is your god, you shall have no others." People use software and use websites because of the benefit that you credibly propose to bring to…

Features absolutely do sell software if the demand already exists. If you are entering an existing market, where the product category is known -- your set of features (not # of features) is a big part of what will drive sales.

StackOverflow, for example, was sold on features. Look at the early pitches -- it's a reddit+wiki replacement for Experts Exchange. Developers already knew that PHPBB and EE sucked for Q&A. They added voting and editing of old answers, and the demand flowed to them.

Re: Ask HN: I built it, "they" didn't come...

#54
post #53
post #2

My projects are mostly based on features that are missing or misimplemented in the existing products. This is your first problem. First, features do not sell software . If there were a Ten Commandments of customer acquisition in the Internet age that would be #2 right after "Google is your god, you shall have no others." People use software and use websites because of the benefit that you credibly propose to bring to…

Features absolutely do sell software if the demand already exists. If you are entering an existing market, where the product category is known -- your set of features (not # of features) is a big part of what will drive sales. StackOverflow, for example, was sold on features. Look at the early pitches -- it's a reddit+wiki replacement for Experts Exchange. Developers already knew that PHPBB and EE sucked for Q&A. The…

But is it "voting and editing of old answers" what sells the service, or is it "finally, Q&A that doesn't atrophy over time, so it's worth investing your effort in making a great community"?

The difference isn't features vs lack of features; it is features vs BENEFITS. This is the thing "business people" bring to the hackerverse.

Re: Ask HN: I built it, "they" didn't come...

#55
post #50
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well i didn't intend to gain attention to advertise my projects, but uhm.. :) one i'm lately struggling with is visitrs.com, i've posted it a few times before, did not get much response, ones i get was helpful though.It has started as a pluggible chat system which allowed visitors of any website to chat with eachother. It would provide interaction between visitors, would create a community around the website, would h…

A few experiences with visitrs. The first 5 seconds of looking at your page filled my head with 'This is just a page of shit that I'm not interested in'. It was not clear that I can participate in creating the list. your join now button is virtually invisible to passing users. I have to click an 'about' page to find out what the site does. this is way too much effort. this needs to be splashed all over the front page…

I've heard the second sentence a millions times :)

maybe it won't make it, but the best part of it is i got many feedbacks including yours that'll help me in the future.

also i learnt much about erlang, ejabberd, mongodb, js frameworks, xapian etc. not that much of loss i guess :)

Re: Ask HN: I built it, "they" didn't come...

#56
post #24
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good comment, but what makes you believe StackOverflow is "incredibly more complicated" than Facebook?

Last time I used Facebook there wasn't a system of badges, karma, minimum karma levels required to access core features, and a community wiki for my wall posts. These are all highly nonobvious . Embedded assumption #475 in Stack Overflow users: it is obvious that replying to a question is not Answering it.

Don't forget the FAQ that demands you acknowledge its existence. I'm fickle enough that the top bar alone drives me away half the time. I'm not alone on this.

Re: Ask HN: I built it, "they" didn't come...

#57
post #46
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good comment, but what makes you believe StackOverflow is "incredibly more complicated" than Facebook?

StackOverflow: * Posting a question: I go to the site, click on "Ask," and post my question. * Searching for answers: I go to the site, type in my search, and search. Facebook: * Posting a photo: I go to the site and look for a camera icon. I can't find one, so I start clicking on stuff like "Account", "Home" and "Profile". Still nothing. I start clicking on everything that isn't a friend's wall post. Eventually I hi…

From now on, I'm using your method to post photos. Usually takes me twice as many steps as that.

Re: Ask HN: I built it, "they" didn't come...

#58
post #5

maybe you're discounting the importance of luck... somehow society just decides your thing is cool. like when there's 5 equal products and one is successful for no particular reason. i always think about how weird bars are. you can 2 equal bars but 1 is packed every night... even with zero distinguishing differences. society just says 'oh that bar usually has people, let's go there'. the problem may not be the produc…

"like when there's 5 equal products and one is successful for no particular reason."

I don't think it's chance. If there are 5 equal products and 1 is successful, there is a reason. You may not be able to see it right away, but it's probably due to: UI, marketing (the right people saw it), benefits, or simplicity.

Look at twitter as an example of this. It's a simple idea and there were many other potential competitors, yet it's still #1. Why?

I read an article about how they targeted influential bloggers (people that had thousands of readers). This wasn't luck, it was an intelligent marketing move. Myspace did the same thing. They targeted musicians (which in turn got fans to get on board).

"i always think about how weird bars are. you can 2 equal bars but 1 is packed every night... even with zero distinguishing differences. society just says 'oh that bar usually has people, let's go there'."

If you can get women to want to come to your bar, the guys will follow and you will have a packed bar. Two bars also are never "equal". There will always be differences (ambiance, drinks, price, maybe the bathrooms are unclean, etc).

Re: Ask HN: I built it, "they" didn't come...

#59
post #52
post #39

I have learnt a lot on HN over the last years. But after a point I have realized that following the actual good advices and trends will not help me, because everybody will follow those advices/trends so that I will always be competing in an oversaturated market: most likely I will fail. I've realized that I can bravely bet against at least some of the trends. Based on my built things and their failures I started to f…

Nice points! I think enterprise is not an easy market to enter. Enterprises are very shy of giving projects to startups and also you need to spend a few years fixing enterprise problems to build good solutions. Another problem is that companies tend to take a long time and to make a decision hence lot of time and money gets blocked in the sales process... I am writing this based on experience. I am trying to push the…

Yes I understand that it is not easy. But I think that the consumer market is also very hard. The problem is that consumers don't really have too much important problems which can be solved by software. I mean they have some, but those fields are very saturated and/or hardly monetizable. Most of them are solved by really big companies like Google and Facebook. I think the b2b market is more diverse, there are more monetizable problems to be solved. On the other hand it is harder to know what companies want. Mostly you cannot just ask your friends.

Re: Ask HN: I built it, "they" didn't come...

#60
When you mentioned reddit, it got me thinking. When I first saw it, I didn't just think "I will use this".

I actually thought: "man, I want this to succeed, it would be awesome if they could pull it off, it is obvious that such a thing will work only if they have some initial users, so I'll use it for a week and hope that it gets enough momentum".

I can't really pin it down what prompted that initial reaction, but it was somehow more than it being useful. It could be the minimalist design or the way the developers sounded, I just wanted to help them.

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