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Ask HN: Is software engineering really a dead-end job after 35-40?

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Re: Ask HN: Is software engineering really a dead-end job after 35-40?

#51

Post by mooreds »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #17
bsvalley wrote: post #12

From an employer perspective, as long as the employee is a good asset there's no dead-end. To be a good asset as a developer, you need to be good at coding and somehow easy to work with. That's it for an employer. Now, from an employee perspective it's a complete different story. When you have fresh grads coming in every day with a lot of energy and already up to date with all the latest trends and technologies, no f…

You keep up by being better. Those kids can code 15 hours a day if they want. I'll code 8, and I'll still produce working code faster than them. I won't waste (as much) time with flawed designs. I won't write nearly as many bugs that then have to be fixed. My code will be more maintainable. In short, I'm more valuable than those kids. If an employer can't see that, then the employer is still at the kid level, and the…

> I'll still produce working code faster than them

I think my advantage (I'm over 40) is that I produce the _right_ working code. Listen to the client, think about the problem, suggest short cuts or alternatives (including COTS if needed). I am much more focused on solving problems now than I was when I was younger.

Re: Ask HN: Is software engineering really a dead-end job after 35-40?

#52

Post by hluska »

I'm 41 and doing great. I 'work' for an amazing organization (work is in quotes because I do exactly what I'd do if I was retired) and have a number of extremely interesting problems on my plate.

A few caveats:

1.) I don't bash new frameworks (even if I know they're a bad idea) until I've built something non trivial with them.

2.) My education and experience are outside the norm for developers where I live. I have a business degree (with a marketing major) and have spent most of my life working for or founding startups.

3.) I love introducing people to each other. When you get older, you're usually much more connected than you imagine.

4.) I make fun of myself when it is deserved.

5.) I praise others when it is deserved.

6.) I stay current. Hell, I have built things with blockchains even though I didn't think it would be a good idea.

Basically, I stay current and try to be a good member of a team.

Re: Ask HN: Is software engineering really a dead-end job after 35-40?

#53

Post by zerr »

chrisbennet wrote: post #2

This following is meant this in sincere and non-snarky way: If the problems you are working on can actually be done/solved at a large table with lots of people around, then it probably isn't a problem that requires 10+ years of experience i.e. it probably could be done by someone younger/cheaper. [Of course, if you "hack" around this by coming in early, working from home, etc. you aren't actually "doing it at a table…

Does your nice personal website help with getting gigs? Do you still have to make the first call?

Re: Ask HN: Is software engineering really a dead-end job after 35-40?

#54

Post by alltakendamned »

chrisbennet wrote: post #4
dosy wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

0x38 is cool. Never thought about doing that. Hex years. Makes everything seem younger. I'm still an 0x20-something then, not so bad! :) I thin I'd like to get into the niche / older spaces, liked embedded / desktop, but I wanted to learn a lot about web dev / cloud first, based on interest and curiosity. I programmed in C when younger, and had an embedded opportunity a couple years ago in it which I turned down, but…

>Do you think there's more work / less applicants ( or at least a higher such ratio ), in C / embedded, etc? I don't know but I think you are on the right track thinking in terms of ratios. If there are (only) 100 jobs for technology X and 90 people with that skill, that's a good skill to have. If there are 10000 jobs for technology Y and 11000 developers for that technology, the ratio is not as favorable. I think th…

I understand from your other comments you're mostly getting work through word of mouth. That said, in your experience, what would be the channels through which the kind of projects you do are advertised? I hardly see any of those.

Re: Ask HN: Is software engineering really a dead-end job after 35-40?

#55

Post by chrisbennet »

alltakendamned wrote: post #54
chrisbennet wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Do you think there's more work / less applicants ( or at least a higher such ratio ), in C / embedded, etc? I don't know but I think you are on the right track thinking in terms of ratios. If there are (only) 100 jobs for technology X and 90 people with that skill, that's a good skill to have. If there are 10000 jobs for technology Y and 11000 developers for that technology, the ratio is not as favorable. I think th…

I understand from your other comments you're mostly getting work through word of mouth. That said, in your experience, what would be the channels through which the kind of projects you do are advertised? I hardly see any of those.

For one of those jobs, I was approached by a head hunter. I outright tell the headhunters I know (that do contracts) to call me if they come across something “weird” but they generally can’t pay enough for it to be worth it.

All the rest where word of mouth from people I know. I wish I knew of a place where these sorts of jobs were advertised.

Re: Ask HN: Is software engineering really a dead-end job after 35-40?

#56

Post by chrisbennet »

zerr wrote: post #53
chrisbennet wrote: post #2

This following is meant this in sincere and non-snarky way: If the problems you are working on can actually be done/solved at a large table with lots of people around, then it probably isn't a problem that requires 10+ years of experience i.e. it probably could be done by someone younger/cheaper. [Of course, if you "hack" around this by coming in early, working from home, etc. you aren't actually "doing it at a table…

Does your nice personal website help with getting gigs? Do you still have to make the first call?

I’m not sure if it helps “get” jobs but it doesn’t hurt.

My current web site is 3drocketsurgery.com. The chrisbennet.com one is all stuff that I did 10 years ago or more. Neither of them are sites you would find via a web search. Not a single person has contacted me through 3drocketsurgery site’s contact form and my name isn’t on it anywhere on it (on purpose). I used to use it with my resume’ and now use it instead of one.

I don’t actually call people or actively search for work. I do try to talk people out of hiring me sometimes. Reading this it makes it seem like I’ve got it all figured out but in reality, I’m just lucky and I’m expecting my luck to run out at some point. It’s kind of scary to be honest.

Re: Ask HN: Is software engineering really a dead-end job after 35-40?

#57

Post by HocusLocus »

chrisbennet wrote: post #2

This following is meant this in sincere and non-snarky way: If the problems you are working on can actually be done/solved at a large table with lots of people around, then it probably isn't a problem that requires 10+ years of experience i.e. it probably could be done by someone younger/cheaper. [Of course, if you "hack" around this by coming in early, working from home, etc. you aren't actually "doing it at a table…

Will you still need me, will you still feed me, when I'm 0100?

Re: Ask HN: Is software engineering really a dead-end job after 35-40?

#58

Post by amorphous »

A lot of good answers in this thread. I want to emphasize that, though ageism clearly exist, it more than anything else depends on you. I have many colleagues and friends that started coding in their childhood (like me) who got burned out after doing it for decades. I have also experienced several times the feeling that coding just doesn't motivate me anymore. Software development is quite different from other technical work, constant pressure to learn new things while at the same time nothing really changes.

What helps is to acquire additonal skills or knowledge outside IT, for example domain knowledge of an industry. This takes time and dedication. Personally, I got very interested in training and I'm now building a training business.

Also important to keep in mind that there exist a whole different IT world outside startups and what you read on HN where ageism is much less a problem.

Re: Ask HN: Is software engineering really a dead-end job after 35-40?

#59

Post by muzani »

rossdavidh wrote: post #38

I _started_ working as a developer when in my mid-30's. I am 50 now. I get paid more than I did when I was younger, and I generally have less trouble getting a job. However, two caveats: 1) your age is not necessarily held against you, but it also doesn't buy you anything. Expect to need to learn new skills every year, just like your 20-something coworkers. 2) the older you get, the easier it is to feel snarky about…

Number 2 is very common even among 20 year olds. I'd hate to see what happens when they turn 50.

Re: Ask HN: Is software engineering really a dead-end job after 35-40?

#60

Post by zerr »

chrisbennet wrote: post #56
zerr wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does your nice personal website help with getting gigs? Do you still have to make the first call?

I’m not sure if it helps “get” jobs but it doesn’t hurt. My current web site is 3drocketsurgery.com. The chrisbennet.com one is all stuff that I did 10 years ago or more. Neither of them are sites you would find via a web search. Not a single person has contacted me through 3drocketsurgery site’s contact form and my name isn’t on it anywhere on it (on purpose). I used to use it with my resume’ and now use it instead…

I was hoping investing in website might reverse the first contact vector, i.e. clients would call me first... Otherwise, so far my CV works just fine, so I guess there is no point in having a website.
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