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Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?

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Re: Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?

#51

Post by dagw »

slededit wrote: post #4

If you focus on this at the point where you aren't getting what you want its too late. You need to build a relationship of trust before you ask for an exception or special request (in the eye of the manager not you). Your manager should know the following: - That if there is a problem you will always come to him/her first not try and work around him - That he can count on you to do what needs to be done. You will go…

That he can count on you to do what needs to be done. You will go out of your way for her. If you've ever said "this isn't my job" then you will have only an adversarial relationship.

True to the extent that it is actually related to your job in a larger sense and doing so won't adversely affect your ability to do your 'real' job. Many managers will just keeping adding more and more responsibilities to their 'best' workers until they either start saying "no", quit or burn out, often without any malice or ill intent.

That being said there are better ways of phrasing it than "this isn't my job". Saying something along the lines of "if I do that I won't have time to finish X by next Tuesday as I promised. It might be worth checking with Dave and his team if they have someone who can work on it. Otherwise I'll be happy to do it, as long as you're OK with pushing X back a week".

Re: Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?

#52

Post by scalesolved »

skyisblue wrote: post #50
dagw wrote: post #47

Remember that one step up from you, your manager is just another employee trying to please his manager. So try to understand what your manager's manager needs from your manager and focus on what you can do to help him deliver that. Make your manager feel like you're on his team, supporting him with whatever unreasonable demands his manager is placing on him. Another point is to try to understand where demands are act…

Agreed. Help your manager succeed and they in turn will help you.

I've done this many times and I would say it's only reciprocated around 50% of the time. It's more nuanced than helping them succeed and expecting them to help you.

Re: Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?

#55

Post by AllegedAlec »

I think a lot of advice here implicitly assumes the following:

1: You are invested in the company in a serious way.

2: Your company is invested in you and wishes the best for you.

However, I think those are quite optimistic assumptions. There's a inherent tension between what you want and what the company wants. The company wants to invest into you the minimum required to both keeping you as an employee as well as allowing you to function as an employee. However, you have an incentive to keep learning as much as possible and broadening your horizons.

A manager's task is (at least in part) to try to resolve this tension. Your manager, however, has apparently decided to side with the company on this. There could be several reasons for this.

It's possible that he's a through and through company man, who believes that the company will do right by him and all other employees and that it would not be beneficial for the company (and thus not for any of the employees of this company) were you to go give this talk.

Another possibility is that he believes that you will not complain when being told that your wishes do not matter. This is quite common in IT related businesses, since in general these people are more agreeable and less likely to voice their opposition to someone they believe to have authority over them.

A third option will be is that he is afraid that if you are to give this talk and network at the event, you may find out that you're not being respected properly in your current company and may try to find your luck elsewhere.

I'd say that if you want to have a chance to establish a long-term working relationship with this manager, you need to find out what your manager's motivation is from keeping you from such events and based on that formulate a strategy for dealing with him/her.

Re: Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?

#56

Post by hfdgiutdryg »

confiscate wrote: post #30
greggarious wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> OP feels going to the conference is a must, "a given", a "constitutional right", and that the manager "wronged" him by not letting him go. It's a very childish way of viewing the world. OP's employer does not own them - they have a right to a private life. While they certainly could not want OP identifying themselves as an agent of their employer when giving a talk, OP is entitled to use their free time / vacation…

Agree 100%. OP can go to conference, in his/her "own time". OP is an adult and does not need an OK from manager to go to the conference in his/her private life. But, OP cannot expect the manager to give the OK. OP is not "entitled" to an automatic OK. The manager does not owe OP an OK.

The manager isn't owed the option of declining OP's plans. The manager can decline to give leave, but if it's simply to prevent OP from attending something that the manager disapproves of, then it's sheer inappropriate cattiness.

Unless OP is at risk of exposing privileged information about their company, the manager has no business trying to interfere with OP.

Re: Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?

#57

Post by dagw »

frisco wrote: post #28
greggarious wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> OP feels going to the conference is a must, "a given", a "constitutional right", and that the manager "wronged" him by not letting him go. It's a very childish way of viewing the world. OP's employer does not own them - they have a right to a private life. While they certainly could not want OP identifying themselves as an agent of their employer when giving a talk, OP is entitled to use their free time / vacation…

That's true as long as they're not talking about their work at the conference. I assume they would be?

What does talking "about their work" actually entail?. I use Cython to do parts of my job. I've given talks about using Cython, drawing on experiences and knowledge gained while doing my job. Was that talking about work?

Re: Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?

#58

Post by koliber »

I am lucky enough to have a good manager with whom I can have very open conversations.

We often talk about things we could improve at our company. Many times it is fixing a bug or improving the UX. Sometimes, it's a process that needs to be built or tweaked. At other times, it's a habit that is counter-productive or something that one of us does that could be done better.

It's a two way street. Just because he is my manager does not mean that we should not talk about things that he needs to change in order for everything to work better. We are equal human beings and differ in areas of responsibility at the company we work for. I am responsible for building software and fixing it, and he is responsible for making sure that I, and others like me, have all the resources necessary to do our job. He is not superior to me and I am not superior to him. We all have flaws and we all strive to be better people.

Conversations where we talk about how each of us can improve naturally have a small level of discomfort. Special care must be given when pointing out how someone can improve. Knowing that there are good intentions behind such feedback makes it ever so easier.

Re: Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?

#59

Post by koonsolo »

skyisblue wrote: post #50
dagw wrote: post #47

Remember that one step up from you, your manager is just another employee trying to please his manager. So try to understand what your manager's manager needs from your manager and focus on what you can do to help him deliver that. Make your manager feel like you're on his team, supporting him with whatever unreasonable demands his manager is placing on him. Another point is to try to understand where demands are act…

Agreed. Help your manager succeed and they in turn will help you.

Or even better, help your managers manager to succeed, 'dispite' your manager. That way you can get your managers position. Saw this happen multiple times.

Welcome to the corporate world.

Re: Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?

#60

Post by confiscate »

hfdgiutdryg wrote: post #56
confiscate wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree 100%. OP can go to conference, in his/her "own time". OP is an adult and does not need an OK from manager to go to the conference in his/her private life. But, OP cannot expect the manager to give the OK. OP is not "entitled" to an automatic OK. The manager does not owe OP an OK.

The manager isn't owed the option of declining OP's plans. The manager can decline to give leave, but if it's simply to prevent OP from attending something that the manager disapproves of, then it's sheer inappropriate cattiness. Unless OP is at risk of exposing privileged information about their company, the manager has no business trying to interfere with OP.

True. Agree. I did not think of that possibility.
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