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Ask HN: Why are law documents (GDPR) so difficult to understand?

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Re: Ask HN: Why are law documents (GDPR) so difficult to understand?

#51
post #10

Legislators don't (and shouldn't imho) get into the specifics of how an industry should abide by the laws they make. That makes the law flexible for the future. In the US, at least, if you were brought up on charges of violation, they would use the reasonable person test. That means that a reasonable person in your position (with the expected knowledge of the industry/field/underlying tech) would have done it in the…

But during the process, a business being accused will waste money and time to defend itself. This could be costly for the business.

Re: Ask HN: Why are law documents (GDPR) so difficult to understand?

#52
post #41

This might sound a little mean, and I don't mean it to be this way, but this is a really naive viewpoint. Look at any profession -- accounting for instance -- and they have all sorts of stuff like this. As an example, there's a concept in accounting of "materiality" - basically, something that's big enough to matter. Materiality is what lets fortune 500 companies present their financial statements rounded to the near…

I do understand this. I am just wondering what happens when there is a vested interest in attacking or suppressing the company involved. For example, if a company becomes unpopular on social media and by "public opinion" (such as Facebook right now), a court can feel pressured into a slanted decision. Given that so much is now based on opinion, what defense does the company have? It seems that if someone had the inte…

That's why we have independent judges.

"Pressuring a judge" would be an impressive feat. They are generally obnoxiously aware of their untouchable status.

And if society's stance really changes, we want the courts to take that into account. Again. feature, not bug.

Re: Ask HN: Why are law documents (GDPR) so difficult to understand?

#53
post #21

I found this regulation put too much burden on small businesses. There's a very simple way around that problem - don't ask for your user's data. The GDPR is about making sure you do your best to protect what they share with you. If they don't need to share anything then there is no burden on you to protect anything. In my opinion this is the ideal outcome. If you gather their data then there really should be a burden…

Most websites ask for users' email used as the account name.

From what I have read on this topic, email address is considered a personal information.

> the necessary work to make sure you've done at least the minimum to protect what they've shared, > especially if you're profiting from that data.

The OP was willing to comply, she asked what "necessary work" means and how to define "minimum".

Also it seems to me that GDPR applies to non-profit sites.

Re: Ask HN: Why are law documents (GDPR) so difficult to understand?

#54
> I think its articles difficult to understand

AINAL, I am a security/privacy consultant. I have a strictly technical/security background but didn't find the GDPR that hard to understand at all. Actually, I was pleasantly surprised that the text itself was quite easy to read, even though really understanding the consequences requires a bit of background research. A year ago, I got CIPP-E certified in a month just by self-study.

> I found it is very difficult to translate from the regulation text to code, to actual implementation

Well yeah, I'm with you on that one. I think it is not because the text is too vague, but rather because it was written in a way that allows companies to implement it in a way that fits their size and the sensitivity of data. Art. 32 is the most important one for security/technical protection. It allows you to implement security controls the way you see fit, as long as you can demonstrate that you made an appropriate decision based on the risk of the data. I think that is the strength of it, not its weakness: A small company doesn't need formal authorization processes if they can show that the user administrator knows all personnel personally and issued the correct authorization profiles for the roles. Telephone numbers from contacts don't need to be protected in the same way you need to protect medical data.

The advantage of the wording is that the controls just need to be "good enough". The disadvantage is that there is no checklist of security controls to take, and hence, you never know for sure whether good is really good enough until you had a visit from the data protection authorities. That remains a problem, but I think if you can explain your reasoning, they might disagree, but if the reasoning is solid enough they won't fine you for it because you can demonstrate you acted in good faith. Therefore it is important to document the reasoning behind your decisions.

> I found this regulation put too much burden on small businesses.

For a small company, setting up the "records of processing activities", doing a basic risk assessment and setting up processing agreements can be done in a couple of days. I don't think that's too much a burden. For many of my clients it helped them to identify weak spots in their security, which is a win-win for both the company and their customers.

Re: Ask HN: Why are law documents (GDPR) so difficult to understand?

#56
post #39

Also, is hackernews complied to GDPR? I didn't seem to see a "delete account" button? As I know GDPR asks that users' data can be deleted at anytime?

What a wonderful feature for the professional astroturfing companies. Are public comments really "personal data"? This is part of the war on general purpose computing, it's an attack on memory.

no, email addresses are. I think GDPR considers emails addresses and perhaps cookies personal information, as a person can be identified by them.

Re: Ask HN: Why are law documents (GDPR) so difficult to understand?

#57

FWIW I recently attempted to translate literally the entirety of the GDPR into Plain English (albeit for a technical audience). It's at: https://blog.varonis.com/gdpr-requirements-list-in-plain-eng... In general I think legislatures putting out goals/guidelines instead of detailed specifications is a feature not a bug. Tech moves faster than they can possibly keep up with and to call out things down to the patchnote…

I wish I could upvote this a lot more than once. This is excellent, thank you.

Re: Ask HN: Why are law documents (GDPR) so difficult to understand?

#58
post #47

Also, is hackernews complied to GDPR? I didn't seem to see a "delete account" button? As I know GDPR asks that users' data can be deleted at anytime?

IANAL, but it's probably not compliant. http://www.ycombinator.com/legal/ even explicitly says that Please note that we have no obligation to delete any of stories, favorites or comments listed in your profile or otherwise remove their association with your profile or username. I presume this is based on the theory that European law can't be enforced against HN since it operates from California. On the other hand, it…

No, GDPR says entities outside EU will be affected too, as long as you process EU people's data. I read somewhere the penalty is 20 million dollars!

Re: Ask HN: Why are law documents (GDPR) so difficult to understand?

#59
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL, but it's probably not compliant. http://www.ycombinator.com/legal/ even explicitly says that Please note that we have no obligation to delete any of stories, favorites or comments listed in your profile or otherwise remove their association with your profile or username. I presume this is based on the theory that European law can't be enforced against HN since it operates from California. On the other hand, it…

No, GDPR says entities outside EU will be affected too, as long as you process EU people's data. I read somewhere the penalty is 20 million dollars!

What GDPR says and what can be enforced are two different things. 20 million dollars are irrelevant if there's no way to extract them. (Hence my musing about YC companies.)
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