Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Can you get away with not working?

news.ycombinator.com

51–60 of 92 posts

Re: Ask HN: Can you get away with not working?

#51
post #10

I mean, it's illegal and you're lying to your employer.. so in the end it's about your morale sense.. it doesn't matter much what other people do or think of it. A somewhat stupid analogy is like saying "I'm killing people in my spare time. I get that it's wrong, but that hasn't stopped me from doing it. Am I the only one that does this?" If you find other people doing it won't make it more legal ;-)

How is it illegal? There might be a civil case (can you sue an employee for laziness?) but I am unaware of a criminal statute on slacking off.

It's not being lazy, it's being paid for A and working on B, totally different thing.

If I hire a freelancer to work on project A and charges me X$/h, but instead work on project B and still charge me for that time, it's illegal. Of course, illegal is a fuzzy term, it really depends of how the contract is crafted and, more importantly, how much one would be willing to take legal action against the freelancer (which will most likely turns out more expensive than just letting it go).

I'm no lawyer, but pretty sure it's not written in standard contracts "Employees can work on whatever he/she wants, get to keep all the IP of it, pending that employee doesn't get caught."

Re: Ask HN: Can you get away with not working?

#52
You would be on a better ethical and legal footing if you quit your job and switched to contracting. You might possibly even be able to contract with your current employer. Of course, the downside of contracting is that you have to spend a good fraction of your time finding and negotiating work.

Re: Ask HN: Can you get away with not working?

#53
I empathize with your position very much, but I think you should reconsider your attitude of, "I don't enjoy my job (but who does)". I have worked on small teams building software that, even tho it's a job, we all really care about and learn together. I agree with those who suggested that you should find a new job OR quit and focus on your side-businesses full time.

Thinking more positively about the idea that a job can be fun will also work in your favour if your side businesses take off and you need to start hiring. You want to know how to spot and get-along with developers who actually care lest you end up with a team of people who will do to you what you are doing to your current employer.

Re: Ask HN: Can you get away with not working?

#54

- shitty enterprise software, on one of the worst code bases I've ever seen - Managers are very hands-off here, not many meetings either I was in a similar spot. You can get away with a ton of stuff in an environment like this, but as you've probably guessed, it will quickly bore you or the code base will invoke tears. Bonus if they let you work from home, and they probably would if you come up with a decent reason.…

You mentioned "shitty enterprise software, on one of the worst code bases I've ever seen" Do you realize that this is your fault too? Your job is to manage, maintain and improve the code-base but, instead, you choose to take advantage of the fact that you still get paid because people aren't micromanaging you and forcing you to do your job. You should realize that lousy codebases and micromanagers exist because of th…

I assume you've never been in an enterprise environment. There are surely good ones, but a common theme is the following:

People will outsource a lot of things. The people outsourcing are not generally knowledgeable people but managers. They buy crappy software against the advice of their own engineers and then ask the engineers to maintain it.

What's worse is that a lot of young engineers will learn code from that crap. I have seen contractors in 2014 laughing at the enterprise for using something as silly as SVN or git. They sent a Whitepaper saying that file locking is the only right way of version control. Do you know how hard it is to correct a bad managers perception? I did, but I also lost my job.

They also had if statements that were 2000 columns wide. Only reason I knew what because I installed a trial version of resharper and ran their code through it.

You might think it's uncommon, but I've seen it in all sorts of places. The current place where it took me 2 years to convince senior management to buy resharper. They do the things I advise them to do, but it takes a shitload of convincing. An EE in the company just died of a heart attack. There's a massive load of cognitive dissonance in there, he tried to fix all sorts of stuff(which is good), but he never got around learning to objectively not care about it(i.e. if they screw up in the end it's their responsibility not yours, you advise them and they actively chose not to listen).

But putting the blame on those people, is at the very least extremely disingenuous.

The only fair question you can ask in this case is, why not just leave. For me it has strategic value, I generally advise people against doing so though.

Re: Ask HN: Can you get away with not working?

#55
if it is a healthy company they will figure you out and throw you away once it becomes convenient.

if it is a bad company, you might get away with that, but you will miss on a lot of learnigs, earnings and networking if you stay there.

in both cases, i believe you should make a change.

personally, i would be too compassionate to the company’s success, and too paranoid on improving my own job security and salary to ever think about doing what you do. i am not judging though.

Re: Ask HN: Can you get away with not working?

#56
post #49

Ugh... Let me give you a different point of view that will most likely not be popular in HNs, but what the hell. I have had employees like you, and I try to scan like the plague during interviews to avoid hiring folks like you. The thing is, that I hate to be micro-managed and by extension, I hate to micro-manage people. Since to have a good work environment, you need to have trust that works both ways. When one pers…

amen :)

Re: Ask HN: Can you get away with not working?

#57
No you're not the only person that's gone through this. If you work at a 9-5 and you're not doing this or focused on your friends / family / hobby or creative projects then maybe you're wasting the valuable little time you have on this earth. Big corporations exist precisely because they can afford the large inefficiencies that come from having a lot of people not really care much.

Now as far as quitting your job, that depends on how much savings you have, your historical ability to deal with extreme chaos, stress and uncertainty, and how much you realistically believe you can grow the business. Some business are great part time but difficult to scale.

Don't overthink it and just do what feels right. Remember that doing the wrong thing can end up being the right thing 10 years down the line.

Re: Ask HN: Can you get away with not working?

#59
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In California employers can't claim ownership of work done off the clock[1]. Non-competes are also not enforceable generally in California[2]. [1]. http://law.onecle.com/california/labor/2870.html [2]. https://www.tradesecretsandtransitions.com/2017/01/californi...

Are non-enforceable non-competes a recent thing?

If you've been working in California for California employers, you've probably seen non-competes that prevent working for a competitor concurrently with that employer. I believe those are enforceable.

What is often presented in other states is an agreement to not work for competitors that extends for maybe 6 months to 2 years after employment; that's not generally enforceable in California, except with some specific exceptions, generally around when a business owner sells their business.

This has been the case for many years, through judicial review as well as legislation.

Re: Ask HN: Can you get away with not working?

#60

From the looks of it, you asked basically this same question within the past year. I think the real question is: are you being honest with yourself? The last time you asked this it was more along the lines of "I hate my job and want out, btw I have wife and 1 child" and now it's more cooled down to "I've accepted that I hate my job and I'm sort of just punishing them with my lack of direction in life" and then lookin…

Ooh, good catch! For others' reference, here's the previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14100061
Post reply on HN