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Ask HN: Developers who became engineering managers, how was the experience?

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Re: Ask HN: Developers who became engineering managers, how was the experience?

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I wished I had gotten more support, many companies don't know how to do that well. It's literally the biggest leadership failure when non-managers get elected to management positions - failure to coach them by senior managers, and ends to torture for everyone. People don't get to deadlift 500lbs after lifting 20lbs for previous 10 years just because someone decided they can do it.

There's only so much you can "teach" of that, a lot is learning on the job, but a company needs to facilitate that learning. If it was simply a matter of teaching, it would be very easy, but I think everybody knows the feeling of opening a book on "management", reading briefly into it, and then throwing it away thinking that it's all completely obvious. It's not, and you really only find out when you actually do it.

coaching does not equal teaching. teaching is learning information, coaching is ensuring skills transfer and achieving desired personal qualities.

Re: Ask HN: Developers who became engineering managers, how was the experience?

#52
Communication. Both up the ladder and down. Up the ladder, you have to be able to sell yourself, your ideas, and your team to other leaders within the organization. Down the ladder, you need to manage the expectations of your direct reports, keep them happy, challenged, and moving forward in their own careers.

Delegation. As a project manager, I was able to spend a fair amount of time keeping up on tech skills, coding, etc. As soon as I took on personnel responsibilities (as a software development manager), I've found very little time to write code. Some, here and there, but it tends to be in short spurts between meetings or other tasks. I had to learn to trust my team to make good decisions. And also learn how to spot when they are about to make a bad one (and intervene without killing morale, efficiency, etc).

Management is much more of a balancing act. As a developer, you really have one goal - write quality software. As a manager, you have two - fulfill the needs of the executive team while also fulfilling the needs of your team.

Re: Ask HN: Developers who became engineering managers, how was the experience?

#53
post #41

I've been in software development for more than 20 years. Here are my 2 cents: - Training, training, training! Without exception, all the technical managers that I've worked with had arrived where they were at based on technical merits. However, being a manager, especially being a leader have nothing to do with technical knowledge. Therefore management and leadership training is a must. This doesn't necessarily need…

I bet you read "Training, training training" and thought "yeah, but I'm pretty good. I'll skip that bit."

Do not underestimate the differences between being an effective individual contributor and an effective engineering manager.

A lot of the concepts a good manager is driven by are counter-intuitive. For example, technical "leadership" as a manager can be repellant, especially to the more senior of your team, and interpreted as evidence of lack of trust.

The political environment of the company will also dictate your success. Half your job is to be the team coach/servant. The other half is making sure the rest of the company understands that what your team is doing is high-value (and making sure that actually is true).

The OP asked "what skill-sets from earlier were important in the transition." Surprisingly little. One of the team's biggest jobs (which you should try to delegate, by the way), is breaking down a problem into smaller, doable chunks. You'll have done this on smaller scales as a coder, and finding reasonable separations of concern can make or break projects. At the same time, you shouldn't be doing all this work yourself. The more responsibility (not just tasks, but decision-making) you can delegate to your team, the more they will own their work and feel responsible for their own success.

These are very different jobs, but training and spending time in those roles can help you on both sides.

Re: Ask HN: Developers who became engineering managers, how was the experience?

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's only so much you can "teach" of that, a lot is learning on the job, but a company needs to facilitate that learning. If it was simply a matter of teaching, it would be very easy, but I think everybody knows the feeling of opening a book on "management", reading briefly into it, and then throwing it away thinking that it's all completely obvious. It's not, and you really only find out when you actually do it.

coaching does not equal teaching. teaching is learning information, coaching is ensuring skills transfer and achieving desired personal qualities.

That's just terminology, in both cases there is no way of actually creating those skills beforehand, you have to learn it while going. And that means making a non-manager a manager at some point.

Re: Ask HN: Developers who became engineering managers, how was the experience?

#55
post #41

I've been in software development for more than 20 years. Here are my 2 cents: - Training, training, training! Without exception, all the technical managers that I've worked with had arrived where they were at based on technical merits. However, being a manager, especially being a leader have nothing to do with technical knowledge. Therefore management and leadership training is a must. This doesn't necessarily need…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Developers who became engineering managers, how was the experience?

#57
post #41

I've been in software development for more than 20 years. Here are my 2 cents: - Training, training, training! Without exception, all the technical managers that I've worked with had arrived where they were at based on technical merits. However, being a manager, especially being a leader have nothing to do with technical knowledge. Therefore management and leadership training is a must. This doesn't necessarily need…

This is spot on. I would add that as a manager, it is my job to foster good relationships with other managers and use those to remove bottlenecks for my team. I spend a good portion of my day on the phone and walking around the office connecting the dots and getting buy-in or compromises and making sure everyone is on the same page about what's being built. On top of that is having a clear "second" who people can go to when you're out to do the same thing.

Another piece is being able to make decisions and stand by them. That doesn't mean never backing down, or always being right, but you'll often make quick decisions with less than ideal information and need to be comfortable with that. You'll be wrong a non-negligible portion of the time, so you'll need to own that, work to fix any issues, etc. and not take it too personally.

As a manager of other managers, I like to tell my team that you're in a good place when work can continue on without you; your job is to push things forward, drive process changes and improvements, message successes up and down, etc.

Re: Ask HN: Developers who became engineering managers, how was the experience?

#58
Ask HN: Just made Director, now what? | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14937290 (Aug 2017, only 38 comments)

Book recommendations:

>gtf21: Would recommend very highly: (1) Andrew Grove's "High Output Management" (controversial recommendation) https://amzn.com/dp/B015VACHOK/ $13.99 2015;4+stars;153 reviews

>killjoywashere: I like Lazlo Bock's book, Work Rules! https://amzn.com/dp/B00MEMMVB8/ $16.99 2015;4+stars;295 reviews

>helper: Maybe read "The Manager's Path" by Camille Fournier. https://amzn.com/dp/B06XP3GJ7F/ $16.19 2017;4+stars;30 reviews

>simonhamp: I'd highly recommend reading Radical Candor by Kim Scott. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01KTIEFEE/ $12.99 2017;4+stars;138 reviews

Podcast recomendation:

>gtf21: Manager Tools "Basics" podcasts, especially on 1x1s and feedback https://www.manager-tools.com/manager-tools-basics

Re: Ask HN: Developers who became engineering managers, how was the experience?

#59
I was pushed into the role due to an acquisition from the position of a technical contributor CTO.

My experience: It's brutally hard and utterly unrewarding. A good manager is evaluated by the performance of their team and the happiness of their team, but most companies do not even collect metrics on team satisfaction other than the mostly discarded of "peer evaluations". This tends to create a toxic environment where abusive managers who exploit their employees rise to the top and equitable and compassionate managers are forced out or given no real opportunity.

I've also never been offered, and in fact have been refused, any engineering management training. I asked, and folks say it's "too expensive." They offer some books (the wrong ones, usually), but I think they (subconsciously or consciously, idk) recognize that performance of the team is a lot more important.

The final thing is even if you do it for awhile and start to get better at it (as has been the case for me), it begins to infect people's expectations of you in the technical world. Everyone assumes you'll start to do it. In some part because you train yourself to adopt a manager's attitude of calm and promote the idea that "yes, this is fixable we don't need to panic."

Once you do it, it will follow you around.

Re: Ask HN: Developers who became engineering managers, how was the experience?

#60
I have seen fantastic developers promoted to horrible managers. As others have stated management isn't coding. Leadership isn't management. Understand that it is your job to guide and lead your team not write every line of code or decide that every line written isn't what you would do. You must build trust both up to your management and down to your team. This can be very difficult to juggle as the impedance miss match can tear you apart. be honest and transparent, this doesn't mean be a unfiltered asshole to everyone. Understand not every decision made is binary there are shades of grey. If you find that "politics" is everywhere and you are constantly in an episode of Days of Our Lives then find another job or move back down to development. I personally don't deal with politics or like where everyone has an agenda but I will help solve problems for both my team and for the company and I will help forward ideas I think are good and get behind the decisions made above me and do my best to execute on those decisions.
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