£18,000 for a development position is absolutely horrendous. You can get 21k for a non university educated PHP developer position. With 8 years you could easily crack £35k if you spin your CV the right way.
Ask HN: Average coder at dead-end. What now?
51–60 of 62 posts
Re: Ask HN: Average coder at dead-end. What now?
#52IMO the biggest thing that's going to hurt you is actually how long you've been in the same place. Don't do that again. :)
If you've been doing software development for 8 years then you shouldn't be a junior and shouldn't settle for it. Highlight the points you mentioned and don't show any links for it. You could have been doing company internal sites for all they know.
>2. As I said, I'm no rockstar. I can't in good conscience apply for one of these jobs knowing I'm not the genius they are looking for."
How do you know? Employers often end up asking for more than they want, so just try and let them decide if you're good enough. You're going to need more confidence though. If you don't think you're good you're going to have a hell of a time convincing someone else that you are.
Re: Ask HN: Average coder at dead-end. What now?
#53Light a fire in your bones now. What inspires you?
Re: Ask HN: Average coder at dead-end. What now?
#54You sound conscientious, competent, and reasonably experienced. That's worth a lot more than what you make. Apply for PHP development jobs in the geographic area to which you can reasonably commute. Network locally, but forget the blog stuff unless that's something you think you'd enjoy. And make sure to give your current employer a chance to bid against the firm that makes you an offer. You'll be surprised how much…
>>And make sure to give your current employer a chance to bid against the firm that makes you an offer. I agree with the rest, but not this. 1. I think bosses are taught that: After this kind of negotiation, most people leave soon after, anyway. 2. The bosses underpaid him. In my experience, there seems to be a bit of strategy to keep employees self confidence down. He should leave that place, no good will come from…
Agreed. Never, ever even go down the road of counter offer (unless you're someone at the level of reporting to Bill Gates or thereabouts). To amplify on 2., if the company was worth working for things wouldn't have gotten to this point and expecting them to change is unrealistic at best, delusional at worst.
While I'm at it, the people who pointed out that you've put systems into production (1/2 of which it sounds like you can show to others, is the glass half-full?) are absolutely right in saying this puts you head and shoulders above a lot of you would be competitors.
Good luck!
Re: Ask HN: Average coder at dead-end. What now?
#55You sound conscientious, competent, and reasonably experienced. That's worth a lot more than what you make. Apply for PHP development jobs in the geographic area to which you can reasonably commute. Network locally, but forget the blog stuff unless that's something you think you'd enjoy. And make sure to give your current employer a chance to bid against the firm that makes you an offer. You'll be surprised how much…
>>And make sure to give your current employer a chance to bid against the firm that makes you an offer. I agree with the rest, but not this. 1. I think bosses are taught that: After this kind of negotiation, most people leave soon after, anyway. 2. The bosses underpaid him. In my experience, there seems to be a bit of strategy to keep employees self confidence down. He should leave that place, no good will come from…
People get other offers and counteroffers and stay at their jobs all the time. In most of corporate America, this is one of the primary ways to get ahead. Maybe not at the most enlightened employee focused development shops, but most programmers don’t work there.
There are a number of good reasons to give your current employer the opportunity to give a counteroffer: 1. It’s the polite thing to do. Even if you say no, your former boss will appreciate being given the opportunity. 2. You may be able to use it as a bargaining advantage in setting your compensation at the new job. More bidders = higher pay for you. 3. Your current employer may decide to make you a really good offer. I’ve seen it happen. They may even create a new job description that didn’t exist to accommodate you.
Ideally we would all work at places that properly valued our skills and contributions, and updated our salaries to reflect our value every year. In the real world, there’s nothing wrong with a little negotiation and competition.
Re: Ask HN: Average coder at dead-end. What now?
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wait are you saying I have to be content with who I am? What do you mean I can't expect my employer to validate my passions in life?
> Wait are you saying I have to be content with who I am? When did he ever tell you to stop bettering yourself? > What do you mean I can't expect my employer to validate my passions in life? Because your passions are yours, and yours alone. You could get miraculosuly lucky and get an employer that shares some of your passions and lets you work in them... or you could remove chance from the equation and write code on…
Sarcasm.... The internet doesn't get it.
Re: Ask HN: Average coder at dead-end. What now?
#57If you can write code that has been put into production, then you are way ahead of many so-called developers on the job market. This is the sad state of our industry. Since you say you know design and programming but the actual sites you've had to put together for your employer(s) are atrocious, why haven't you built a portfolio for yourself? For very cheap, you can get yourself a virtual server or even some shared h…
Could you please elaborate on that one?
I understand it is true for every rookie, but how is it possible to remain 8+ years in the payroll if you do not ship anything to production? By job hopping every year?
Re: Ask HN: Average coder at dead-end. What now?
#58The average UK salary is looking more like double what you're getting.
http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/default.aspx?page=1&sortby=...
Check what it is specifically for your area, since it does vary a lot and London salaries pull the average up. Then raise the issue with your boss, and be prepared to give notice if they're not going to pay you more.
£18k is a mediocre salary for full-time helpdesk work, nevermind eight years of experience at dev. You're being proper fucked here, and you need to get away from it.
If you're too scared to walk from your current job right away - and I'm in much the same position and can appreciate how you feel - pick up some easy PHP dev work from RentaACoder, Elance, or guru.com on the side. You should be able to give up some weekends for a month or two to make money on the side, which will prove that you CAN make money on the side and give you some headroom for when you quit.
Oh, and the sites you've made don't really matter. You just make what you get told to make, right? Everyone understands that.
Re: Ask HN: Average coder at dead-end. What now?
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
>>And make sure to give your current employer a chance to bid against the firm that makes you an offer. I agree with the rest, but not this. 1. I think bosses are taught that: After this kind of negotiation, most people leave soon after, anyway. 2. The bosses underpaid him. In my experience, there seems to be a bit of strategy to keep employees self confidence down. He should leave that place, no good will come from…
People get other offers and counteroffers and stay at their jobs all the time. In most of corporate America, this is one of the primary ways to get ahead. Maybe not at the most enlightened employee focused development shops, but most programmers don’t work there. There are a number of good reasons to give your current employer the opportunity to give a counteroffer: 1. It’s the polite thing to do. Even if you say no,…
Interesting.
It isn't true in the US then, about "they'll leave anyway, if they did so much work that they applied, did the interviews and got an offer"?
Is it a general philosophy in some areas?
I've heard that in more "active" work markets (London is the closest to me) that people have their CVs going around continuously.
Re: Ask HN: Average coder at dead-end. What now?
#60Quit & take a junior dev position preferably working with other languages (ruby, perl, jquery, ms visual studio, w/e) to mix up your skill set- then you'll have ten years of experience in varied environments, much more attractive as an employee. Even if it pays less, it gets you on the right track. Good luck!