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Ask HN: Why do coding bootcamps teach Ruby on Rails and JavaScript?

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Re: Ask HN: Why do coding bootcamps teach Ruby on Rails and JavaScript?

#51

Post by xiaoma »

edoceo wrote: post #50
xiaoma wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cake PHP was basically a copy of Rails. When Rails first appeared, it didn't exist.

According to Wikipedia that is false. CakePHP in April 2005, RoR in December 2005

No, that's not true.

The history section of the wikipedia entry on rails says: "Hansson first released Rails as open source in July 2004, but did not share commit rights to the project until February 2005."[1]

The very second sentence of the wikipedia article on CakePHP is: " It follows the model–view–controller (MVC) approach and is written in PHP, modeled after the concepts of Ruby on Rails, and distributed under the MIT License."[2]

Then, in the fourth paragraph: "One of the project's inspirations was Ruby on Rails, using many of its concepts. "

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_on_Rails#History

[2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CakePHP

Re: Ask HN: Why do coding bootcamps teach Ruby on Rails and JavaScript?

#52

Post by amorphid »

A lot of it might just be timing. Dev Bootcamp (the original bootcamp?) started up when Rails was the cool kid on the block, and it was a break out success. They proved there was a market, and the busy model was easy to clone. A bunch of Rails bootcamp copycats popped almost immediately.

Re: Ask HN: Why do coding bootcamps teach Ruby on Rails and JavaScript?

#53

Post by nrjdhsbsid »

Essentially because they're easy to grok. Take js for example. No interfaces, basic OO system, no access modifiers or static typing, no multithreading, no pointers Etc...

A lot of concepts can be handwaved when you're using a language that doesn't support them. Js is easy to learn and widely useful.

Re: Ask HN: Why do coding bootcamps teach Ruby on Rails and JavaScript?

#54

Post by coryl »

gravypod wrote: post #48

I think the question that I'd really love answered is why do all of the bootcamps focus on web development. Why don't some focus on systems development, operating systems, trading systems, and other things that won't be covered that I'd consider "important programming" stuff.

The purpose of a bootcamp is to take an inexperienced or new developer and get them job ready. This is possible with web dev, as theres a large market for it and its sufficiently "shallow" enough to be usefully productive in a few months.

The subjects you mentioned have much smaller, specialized job markets and take longer to learn.

Re: Ask HN: Why do coding bootcamps teach Ruby on Rails and JavaScript?

#55

Post by gravypod »

coryl wrote: post #54
gravypod wrote: post #48

I think the question that I'd really love answered is why do all of the bootcamps focus on web development. Why don't some focus on systems development, operating systems, trading systems, and other things that won't be covered that I'd consider "important programming" stuff.

The purpose of a bootcamp is to take an inexperienced or new developer and get them job ready. This is possible with web dev, as theres a large market for it and its sufficiently "shallow" enough to be usefully productive in a few months. The subjects you mentioned have much smaller, specialized job markets and take longer to learn.

I don't think the job markets are smaller nor does it take longer to take someone and teach them how to be a deveoper on low-level systems. These fields are more about knowladge and tricks to learn to make your software efficent and an understanding of existing systems. This is very easily codifiable in a code-camp like course.

You can take students and build real products (embeded systems like example medical gear and such) and teach them all of the same programming-specific information they already learn.

Now granted this wont happen any time soon. I don't think it's impossible I just think the kind of people who go to code boot camps aren't the kind of people who are interested in low level systems development. Maybe that's just a stereotype but as long as it persists people probably won't attempt to build things like schools like that.

Re: Ask HN: Why do coding bootcamps teach Ruby on Rails and JavaScript?

#56

Post by edoceo »

xiaoma wrote: post #51
edoceo wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to Wikipedia that is false. CakePHP in April 2005, RoR in December 2005

No, that's not true. The history section of the wikipedia entry on rails says: "Hansson first released Rails as open source in July 2004, but did not share commit rights to the project until February 2005." [1] The very second sentence of the wikipedia article on CakePHP is: " It follows the model–view–controller (MVC) approach and is written in PHP, modeled after the concepts of Ruby on Rails, and distributed under…

I stand corrected.

Re: Ask HN: Why do coding bootcamps teach Ruby on Rails and JavaScript?

#58

Post by sopooneo »

edoceo wrote: post #37
rubyn00bie wrote: post #4

JavaScript is a must know if you want to do web work. It's as necessary as HTML. It's the only language browsers actually natively run. Ruby on Rails is sort of the basis for most any other modern MVC web framework. That is to say it inspired nearly every other web MVC framework, in most other languages. If you can use Rails you'll be able to use most anything else. Prior to Rails most web apps had proprietary framew…

Rails was only one of many Patterns of Enterprise Architecture projects. Martin Fowler made a book, then RoR came along, and the environment at the time was "hating" on PHP and ignoring it's PoEA frameworks (Cake) in search of a new shiny. Then it had an uptrend (common s-curve) and some sticking. Now JS is (re) having a similar trend. Plus ça change I guess. Also, the students I'm hiring (right out of USA community…

PoEA. "Philippine Overseas Employment Administration"?

http://www.poea.gov.ph/

Re: Ask HN: Why do coding bootcamps teach Ruby on Rails and JavaScript?

#59

Post by h1d »

paulddraper wrote: post #12
bhollan wrote: post #5

Programming concepts come more easily the more gradually they are revealed. Nobody has any concept of what a stack overflow is or why it's important on day 1. Ruby is approachable and fairly forgiving and (at least in MY opinion) VERY readable. Full disclosure: I went to engineering school for 2 degree and then later attended (and currently work for) a code school. I can say that I can see a marked difference in stud…

Because if you can understand Ruby, you can understand anything.

You won't understand why some languages aren't as elegant to write as ruby.

Re: Ask HN: Why do coding bootcamps teach Ruby on Rails and JavaScript?

#60

Post by herbst »

h1d wrote: post #59
paulddraper wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because if you can understand Ruby, you can understand anything.

You won't understand why some languages aren't as elegant to write as ruby.

This is really a issue as ruby dev. Its hard to motivate yourself picking up anything that is not as cute. Glad more and more cute/elegant languages are coming out every day.
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