Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#491

Post by somethoughts » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 10:44 PM UTC

thow-58d4e8b wrote: post #469

somethoughts wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a SW developer you provide two benefits to the company: - the build phase: develop spaghetti code - the maintain/insurance phase: maintain the spaghetti code and keep it up to date with the software package dependencies required by the spaghetti code In the long term its easier/cheaper to have the person who originally wrote the spaghetti code be around to maintain and add one off small feature improvements to it…

There's one more reason - the one I use to rationalize my idleness to myself: in addition to our work output, the corporations are also paying us to be a part of their "reserve army". We might work 3-4 hours a day, but when things escalate, the company taps into its reserves to get stuff done. Having doldrums about that is like soldiers worrying they only spend 3 hours a day in combat

That reminds me of this article for some reason :)

"Google has a secret ‘bench’ program that keeps execs at the company even when they’re not leading anything"

https://venturebeat.com/2015/05/09/google-has-a-secret-bench...

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#492

Post by winterplace » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 10:45 PM UTC

ConfessionTime wrote: post #242

ineptech wrote: post #168

Long time manager here. I call this "work-shy" and it is neither ubiquitous nor rare, I'd guess about 10%-20% of all employees, and it's certainly not unique to software or even to white-collar work. You should think of this as a problem. Even if it's not for your boss or your teammates (and it will be, eventually), it is for you. It is soul-crushing to fill up the hours. Two pieces of advice: 1) The "good" solution…

It is interesting the number of people who see this as a problem that needs to be fixed. Since this specific comment is near the top, I might as well address that here. Why should I work more? How will that improve my life? My self-worth is derived from what I do outside of work to the extent that I don't prioritize professional validation. The primary reason I work is for money. I make enough money that I can live a…

What is a better way for the company to give you increases?

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#493

Post by khazhoux » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 10:46 PM UTC

byoung2 wrote: post #5

Imagine a security guard at an office building. 90% of the time might be sitting in a booth watching monitors. The other 10% of the time is buzzing people in or making rounds. But that 90% of the time when they are sitting around is important, since they are on call. So you are like a security guard. Your employer gladly pays you for the 90% of the time you are doing nothing, because they need the comfort of having a…

Like most analogies, this one fails completely. It's well-understood that the security guard does nothing but stay alert 99% of the time. He very explicitly needs to "do nothing" for long stretches of time.

Software development operates largely on trust that everyone on the team is putting in real effort. The manager trusts that when it takes you a week to finish a task, it's because it actually took a week of work, not a few minutes on Monday and then you watched YouTube vids and were on your XBox the rest of the week. And not just the manager -- everyone at the company would almost certainly like to move faster, and wouldn't be happy to know that features and bugfixes could be landing 5x faster, except for people who figured out that no one's checking up on them.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#494

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 10:47 PM UTC

oceanghost wrote: post #112

ckaygusu wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_Poincar%C3%A9 > He never spent a long time on a problem since he believed that the subconscious would continue working on the problem while he consciously worked on another problem. This is definitely a thing. Intellectual labor just isn't physical labor.

Most of the best ideas I've had in my career were in the shower before work. The problem is making that a regular occurrence.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#495

Post by apinstein » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 10:47 PM UTC

That is not normal for any dev team I’ve ever run. We have had people with your “approach” for sure, though. They were detected and fired within 1-4 weeks of when that behavior pattern started. I don’t know how any company could tolerate that. At a startup, that’s deadly.

That said, I can totally believe people get away with it. At many companies, many managers seem to not care, be incompetent, or not believe they can do anything about it. I could personally never be happy with myself getting away with something like that, and would quit any job that couldn’t provide productive work for me to tackle.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#496

Post by gyam » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 10:47 PM UTC

i_dont_know_ wrote: post #18

I think there's also something to be said for passive processing. Sometimes I'll know I need to write some code or some function and I'll just think about it in the back of my head while doing other things, sometimes for a whole day or two. Then I'll sit down and write it in like 20-30 minutes. Did I work 20-30 minutes, or have I been working for a day or two? I would say a day or two, and the 20-30 minutes was the t…

This. This happens whether I enjoy the thing I am working on or not. It’s just part of the process.

Also sometimes your mind needs a break. I personally cannot produce quality thoughts continuously no matter how much you force me, or I want to. I can mindlessly do physical things, but cannot code or think. I find it hard to believe there are people who can do this, if there are, they must be rare I beieve.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#497

Post by floydian10 » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 10:50 PM UTC

mylons wrote: post #369

pydry wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Large companies have a tendency to throw up all sorts of impediments to actually getting shit done. Simple tasks can take 3 weeks because there are 7-9 dependencies throwing sand in the gears. This not only provides plenty of cover for not getting stuff done it also saps the motivation to get it done quickly. Like, if X team sits on your request for a week that prevents Y feature from getting out are you really gonna…

the startup i just left did this. they have about 300 employees, and are pre revenue. the process to add a field to an api response was incredibly tedious and sapped my motivation completely.

Adding a simple endpoint to an existing API somehow ended up being a 3-day back and forth in my latest GitHub PR. Worst part is that I knew beforehand that was going to be the case, since it happens all the time. Can't se myself lasting long here.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#498

Post by psim1 » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 10:52 PM UTC

Not only do you do very little work and get rewarded nicely for it, you post about your laziness on HN and get rewarded for it through praise and upvotes. Obviously you are doing well for yourself. But I am glad I do not work with you.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#499

Post by kelnos » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 10:53 PM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #327

I don't think there's anything wrong with this. If your management had a problem with it, they would have said something. I don't think you "owe" anyone anything that your management has not asked or required you to give. At one point in my career I was working 90+ hours per week, and while I learned a lot in that time (and at least convinced myself I was having fun), the end result was burnout. These days I work les…

To add one more thing: don't make life hard for your peers. If your intentional lack of productivity is making your teammates' lives harder, that's not cool. Don't be selfish at the expense of others.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#500

Post by TruthWillHurt » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 10:53 PM UTC

trulyme wrote: post #109

neilk wrote: post #84

Please indulge my curiosity. This might be wildly unrelated but... how attractive are you, physically? Are you thin? Are you taller than most people in your peer group? Do you more or less resemble the "dominant" demographic where you live? That is, the same gender presentation, ethnicity, etc. as most of your government and business leaders. Are you a citizen of the country where you live?

Would love to hear your hypothesis, care to share it?

I get what he's saying. I myself am not so pretty, but I carry myself with pride and have that "alpha male" attitude. I speak with confidence, humor and a bit louder than others -

And that lets me get away with a lot of slacking off.